USPS financial numbers helping fuel federal investigation?

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Jun 22, 2009
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D-Queued said:
Sorry for being a slow learner, then.

But, didn't the USPS receive $3.034 billion/year in "Capital contributions of the U.S. Government" each year from at least 1997 - 2008 (increased in 2009 to $3.09b)? USPS posted a profit in 2003, but posted losses in the previous years. USPS was the team's title sponsor from 1996-2004.

True, the USPS's operating expenses during these years were closer to $60-70b, but the Federal Government's assistance was crucial to their Cash Flow. Minimally, one out of every $20-30 in USPS expenses were covered by Tax dollars.

Unless I am mistaken, the US Government's primary sources of cash are borrowings, increases in M1, and Tax Revenues. The 'only' source of Revenue is tax. If the $3b/year that floated USPS operations during the years in question didn't come from tax dollars, then which of the other two were the source?

Unless the tax dollars were somehow segregated at USPS, it is a reasonable assumption that US tax dollars were used to support the USPS cycling sponsorship.

Looks like tax dollars at work to me.

Dave.
first of all, your link isn't any good. you link to a completely useless page of that document.

secondly, i don't really care that much bro, really just trying to save people the embarrassment of making the "lance stole money from tax payers" accusations when they fall flat. for the record, i'm no apologist. no matter where the money comes from, if a cycling team chooses to use PEDs to get results they become fraudulent.

thirdly, i think the 3 billion you're referring to is money borrowed from the US treasury and it is not gifted. that's not the same as tax payer support. i'll admit that at this point things get a little murky. ie will it ever actually be repaid? doesn't borrowing this sum from the US treasury burden tax payers in some way? isn't the burden greater the longer it takes to repay those funds? etc ...but that's not really what you've said.

fourthly? ...the postal service recieves about 96 million in ACTUAL tax payer support to provide extra services to needy or disabled customers you never mentioned. 96 mil is a lot to an individual but a drop in the bucket compared to a 60 billion total and it is for what most would deem necessary assistance like helping blind customers.

lastly, saying that tax payers support the USPS cycling team is glossing over quite a few details when the best argument, which is still reaching, is that 3 of 60 billion is only somewhat tied to tax payers.
 
lean said:
first of all, your link isn't any good. you link to a completely useless page of that document.

secondly, i don't really care that much bro, really just trying to save people the embarrassment of making the "lance stole money from tax payers" accusations when they fall flat. for the record, i'm no apologist. no matter where the money comes from, if a cycling team chooses to use PEDs to get results they become fraudulent.

thirdly, i think the 3 billion you're referring to is money borrowed from the US treasury and it is not gifted. that's not the same as tax payer support. i'll admit that at this point things get a little murky. ie will it ever actually be repaid? doesn't borrowing this sum from the US treasury burden tax payers in some way? isn't the burden greater the longer it takes to repay those funds? etc ...but that's not really what you've said.

fourthly? ...the postal service recieves about 96 million in ACTUAL tax payer support to provide extra services to needy or disabled customers you never mentioned. 96 mil is a lot to an individual but a drop in the bucket compared to a 60 billion total and it is for what most would deem necessary assistance like helping blind customers.

lastly, saying that tax payers support the USPS cycling team is glossing over quite a few details when the best argument, which is still reaching, is that 3 of 60 billion is only somewhat tied to tax payers.
Apologies for the link, or apologies on behalf of the USPS site. They do not provide links for the specific pages that year. Just click on the 'Financial Overview' or 'Financial Section'. Or, you can check out a different year (e.g. 2007).

You are right, and you coined it best. At the end of the day, it is murky.

To add to the murk, the USPS is independent establishment of the executive branch, with most Board members appointed by the President. It is not a Government owned corporation but a quasi-government organization whose borrowings are increasing year-over-year.

Dave.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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D-Queued said:
Unless I am mistaken...Looks like tax dollars at work to me.

Dave.
Spanked. You mention M1, and he responds, "I'm don't really care that much, bro". :eek: :eek:

One of the better posts I've seen on here.
 
NashbarShorts said:
Spanked. You mention M1, and he responds, "I'm don't really care that much, bro". :eek: :eek:

One of the better posts I've seen on here.
What do you care, and why bother?

The 253 word response to my 178 words says he cares more than you give him credit for... and is gramatically correct in that sentence, unlike you (i.e. you could at least not misquote him).



"Debt Is Increasing At Year-End, and So Is Average Debt During the Year."

Dave.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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D-Queued said:
Unless the tax dollars were somehow segregated at USPS, it is a reasonable assumption that US tax dollars were used to support the USPS cycling sponsorship.

Looks like tax dollars at work to me.

Dave.
Dave, when you step back and take a look at the big picture - you can only conclude that Lance GENERATED money for the US Government.

Many many individuals and several major corporations paid mucho additional taxes because of the "Lance Effect". The "Lance Stimulus" if you will.

Trek, Nike, Subaru, Etc paid taxes to the US Gov on profits that are directly linked back to Lance. Countless lawyers, accountants, trainers, doctors paid taxes on revenues they generated because of Lance. Heck, Lance himself pays some hefty tax bills to the IRS lol.

The taxes the IRS took in (and continue to take in) from the "Lance Effect" are many times greater than the tax dollars spent on the USPS Team. By a huge margin. However, Novitzky and company ARE putting a dent in the surplus:(



PS: The Lance Effect benefited the GLOBAL economy btw. France, Italy, Spain, Oz, Belgium, etc etc etc.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Polish said:
Dave, when you step back and take a look at the big picture - you can only conclude that Lance GENERATED money for the US Government.

Many many individuals and several major corporations paid mucho additional taxes because of the "Lance Effect". The "Lance Stimulus" if you will.

Trek, Nike, Subaru, Etc paid taxes to the US Gov on profits that are directly linked back to Lance. Countless lawyers, accountants, trainers, doctors paid taxes on revenues they generated because of Lance. Heck, Lance himself pays some hefty tax bills to the IRS lol.

The taxes the IRS took in (and continue to take in) from the "Lance Effect" are many times greater than the tax dollars spent on the USPS Team. By a huge margin. However, Novitzky and company ARE putting a dent in the surplus:(



PS: The Lance Effect benefited the GLOBAL economy btw. France, Italy, Spain, Oz, Belgium, etc etc etc.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 
Jul 2, 2009
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polish, i agree

in the Big Picture lance GENERATED money

tax was taken
the fed are in investigation
money is being spent

the key investigator does not seem to be concerned with expenses/profit
 
Oct 25, 2010
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tubularglue said:
the key investigator does not seem to be concerned with expenses/profit
Federal investigators rarely are concerned with expenses. That's the luxury given to federal prosecutions. They're almost impossible for defendants to win. They always get outspent. Other than flying 3 people to France (which is not uncommon for cases involving international borders), please tell us how this investigation is disproportionate to most any other you may have seen or heard about.

The "waste of money" strategy is a very weak argument.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
The "waste of money" strategy is a very weak argument.
The money given by the USPS to the cycling team was certainly not a waste.
Not by a longshot. It paid off big time for the IRS/USGov. France too.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Polish said:
The money given by the USPS to the cycling team was certainly not a waste.
Not by a longshot. It paid off big time for the IRS/USGov. France too.
I thought you meant the expense of the investigation. Lance & his PR team have been using that and hoping for results. It ain't working very well for him.
 
May 8, 2009
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Polish said:
Dave, when you step back and take a look at the big picture - you can only conclude that Lance GENERATED money for the US Government.

Many many individuals and several major corporations paid mucho additional taxes because of the "Lance Effect". The "Lance Stimulus" if you will.

Trek, Nike, Subaru, Etc paid taxes to the US Gov on profits that are directly linked back to Lance. Countless lawyers, accountants, trainers, doctors paid taxes on revenues they generated because of Lance. Heck, Lance himself pays some hefty tax bills to the IRS lol.

The taxes the IRS took in (and continue to take in) from the "Lance Effect" are many times greater than the tax dollars spent on the USPS Team. By a huge margin. However, Novitzky and company ARE putting a dent in the surplus:(



PS: The Lance Effect benefited the GLOBAL economy btw. France, Italy, Spain, Oz, Belgium, etc etc etc.
That is a funny piece of **** :). Guys like Lance rellocate money, the do not generate it. Anyway, he is a doper and a lier, to the jail with him :)
 

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