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D-Queued said:Sorry for being a slow learner, then.
But, didn't the USPS receive $3.034 billion/year in "Capital contributions of the U.S. Government" each year from at least 1997 - 2008 (increased in 2009 to $3.09b)? USPS posted a profit in 2003, but posted losses in the previous years. USPS was the team's title sponsor from 1996-2004.
True, the USPS's operating expenses during these years were closer to $60-70b, but the Federal Government's assistance was crucial to their Cash Flow. Minimally, one out of every $20-30 in USPS expenses were covered by Tax dollars.
Unless I am mistaken, the US Government's primary sources of cash are borrowings, increases in M1, and Tax Revenues. The 'only' source of Revenue is tax. If the $3b/year that floated USPS operations during the years in question didn't come from tax dollars, then which of the other two were the source?
Unless the tax dollars were somehow segregated at USPS, it is a reasonable assumption that US tax dollars were used to support the USPS cycling sponsorship.
Looks like tax dollars at work to me.
Dave.
lean said:first of all, your link isn't any good. you link to a completely useless page of that document.
secondly, i don't really care that much bro, really just trying to save people the embarrassment of making the "lance stole money from tax payers" accusations when they fall flat. for the record, i'm no apologist. no matter where the money comes from, if a cycling team chooses to use PEDs to get results they become fraudulent.
thirdly, i think the 3 billion you're referring to is money borrowed from the US treasury and it is not gifted. that's not the same as tax payer support. i'll admit that at this point things get a little murky. ie will it ever actually be repaid? doesn't borrowing this sum from the US treasury burden tax payers in some way? isn't the burden greater the longer it takes to repay those funds? etc ...but that's not really what you've said.
fourthly? ...the postal service recieves about 96 million in ACTUAL tax payer support to provide extra services to needy or disabled customers you never mentioned. 96 mil is a lot to an individual but a drop in the bucket compared to a 60 billion total and it is for what most would deem necessary assistance like helping blind customers.
lastly, saying that tax payers support the USPS cycling team is glossing over quite a few details when the best argument, which is still reaching, is that 3 of 60 billion is only somewhat tied to tax payers.
D-Queued said:Unless I am mistaken...Looks like tax dollars at work to me.
Dave.
NashbarShorts said:Spanked. You mention M1, and he responds, "I'm don't really care that much, bro".
One of the better posts I've seen on here.
D-Queued said:Unless the tax dollars were somehow segregated at USPS, it is a reasonable assumption that US tax dollars were used to support the USPS cycling sponsorship.
Looks like tax dollars at work to me.
Dave.
Polish said:Dave, when you step back and take a look at the big picture - you can only conclude that Lance GENERATED money for the US Government.
Many many individuals and several major corporations paid mucho additional taxes because of the "Lance Effect". The "Lance Stimulus" if you will.
Trek, Nike, Subaru, Etc paid taxes to the US Gov on profits that are directly linked back to Lance. Countless lawyers, accountants, trainers, doctors paid taxes on revenues they generated because of Lance. Heck, Lance himself pays some hefty tax bills to the IRS lol.
The taxes the IRS took in (and continue to take in) from the "Lance Effect" are many times greater than the tax dollars spent on the USPS Team. By a huge margin. However, Novitzky and company ARE putting a dent in the surplus
PS: The Lance Effect benefited the GLOBAL economy btw. France, Italy, Spain, Oz, Belgium, etc etc etc.
tubularglue said:the key investigator does not seem to be concerned with expenses/profit
BotanyBay said:The "waste of money" strategy is a very weak argument.
Polish said:The money given by the USPS to the cycling team was certainly not a waste.
Not by a longshot. It paid off big time for the IRS/USGov. France too.
Polish said:Dave, when you step back and take a look at the big picture - you can only conclude that Lance GENERATED money for the US Government.
Many many individuals and several major corporations paid mucho additional taxes because of the "Lance Effect". The "Lance Stimulus" if you will.
Trek, Nike, Subaru, Etc paid taxes to the US Gov on profits that are directly linked back to Lance. Countless lawyers, accountants, trainers, doctors paid taxes on revenues they generated because of Lance. Heck, Lance himself pays some hefty tax bills to the IRS lol.
The taxes the IRS took in (and continue to take in) from the "Lance Effect" are many times greater than the tax dollars spent on the USPS Team. By a huge margin. However, Novitzky and company ARE putting a dent in the surplus
PS: The Lance Effect benefited the GLOBAL economy btw. France, Italy, Spain, Oz, Belgium, etc etc etc.