Vaughters interview on Tour Chats

[Anonymous]

Well worth a watch. Talks about various things, but more interestingly (and why this is in the clinic) is his discussion on Thomas Dekker (Dekker stuff starts at about 25 minutes)

http://tourchats.com/2011/12/show-19/#more-524

 

[hektoren]

Well worth a watch. Talks about various things, but more interestingly (and why this is in the clinic) is his discussion on Thomas Dekker (Dekker stuff starts at about 25 minutes)

http://tourchats.com/2011/12/show-19/#more-524

Dekker stuff begins at 28:30

 

[Granville57]

Very interesting. JV really gets into the details of the Dekker deal. This is much more than anything you'd likely get in any printed interview.

In regards to Rasmussen, JV says he made it clear to him that anytime a Garmin rider has two missed tests, the team doesn't allow them to race.

"On our team, when you have two missed tests, you sit, you don't race. That's been the same policy since we've been in existence. Until that second test "rolls off" we don't race them."

JV makes it sound like a not-entirely-unusual event. I wonder how often that happens?
--------------------

LOL at that TdF trophy. He's right, it's a plastic piece o' junk! Very touching that there's a Coke Cola bottle as its center piece. Classy, ASO.

 

[daveinzambia]

so frustrating. We will not sign you because you are doping. But we will just ignore that fact and leave you to it. And if it was that obvious why did it take someone else so long to notice.

and this is supposedly the guy at the tip of the anti doping sword.

 

[Anonymous]

JV makes it sound like a not-entirely-unusual event. I wonder how often that happens?
.

go through the garmin riders and see which ones went a long time without racing

so frustrating. We will not sign you because you are doping. But we will just ignore that fact and leave you to it. And if it was that obvious why did it take someone else so long to notice.
.

it does raise questions about the bio passport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

so frustrating. We will not sign you because you are doping. But we will just ignore that fact and leave you to it. And if it was that obvious why did it take someone else so long to notice.

and this is supposedly the guy at the tip of the anti doping sword.

How do you know JV ignored the fact?
You do realize that Dekker is the only rider to have been caught by retro analysis of a sample done by the UCI.

Also, JV says it looked obvious he doped in 07, 08 - but also obvious that Dekker had stopped in 09.

Which begs a more serious question - if it was obvious to JV, then why didn't the UCI go after Dekker through the Bio Passport.

 

[daveinzambia]

How do you know JV ignored the fact?
You do realize that Dekker is the only rider to have been caught by retro analysis of a sample done by the UCI.

Also, JV says it looked obvious he doped in 07, 08 - but also obvious that Dekker had stopped in 09.

Which begs a more serious question - if it was obvious to JV, then why didn't the UCI go after Dekker through the Bio Passport.

Good point, did not actually say that he ignored it in interview, maybe they did have a quiet word with someone. think i will chose to believe they did something as makes me feel more positive about the whole thing.

the second bit is still frustrating, from what JV says it was pretty obvious straight away, so why only to Garmin

 

[ansimi]

Very interesting. JV really gets into the details of the Dekker deal. This is much more than anything you'd likely get in any printed interview.

In regards to Rasmussen, JV says he made it clear to him that anytime a Garmin rider has two missed tests, the team doesn't allow them to race.

"On our team, when you have two missed tests, you sit, you don't race. That's been the same policy since we've been in existence. Until that second test "rolls off" we don't race them."

JV makes it sound like a not-entirely-unusual event. I wonder how often that happens?

I haven't watched the interview yet but I'm curious what the logic would be in keeping guys from racing when they have 2 missed tests? Is it just a form of punishment? Somebody who's not racing would be just as likely to miss a 3rd test - maybe more likely since their whereabouts would be less structured. I suppose, if you think 2 missed tests is indicative of doping then it might reduce the chance of them testing positive at a competition.

 

[craig1985]

Very interesting. JV really gets into the details of the Dekker deal. This is much more than anything you'd likely get in any printed interview.

In regards to Rasmussen, JV says he made it clear to him that anytime a Garmin rider has two missed tests, the team doesn't allow them to race.

"On our team, when you have two missed tests, you sit, you don't race. That's been the same policy since we've been in existence. Until that second test "rolls off" we don't race them."

JV makes it sound like a not-entirely-unusual event. I wonder how often that happens?
--------------------

LOL at that TdF trophy. He's right, it's a plastic piece o' junk! Very touching that there's a Coke Cola bottle as its center piece. Classy, ASO.

I suppose it would happen often, I mean guys drop out of races or get called up to races at the last minute because the nominated rider for that race crashes out/gets sick etc., and being human, people do forget and make mistakes when it comes to doing paperwork, even it's not acceptable for getting a warning, but I can see and understand how it can happen.

 

[Benotti69]

I suppose it would happen often, I mean guys drop out of races or get called up to races at the last minute because the nominated rider for that race crashes out/gets sick etc., and being human, people do forget and make mistakes when it comes to doing paperwork, even it's not acceptable for getting a warning, but I can see and understand how it can happen.

when you're livelihood is at stake i dont think too many rider's forget to do the paperwork. It is part of the job and not doing it means you could lose your job. I think it is simply that riders have doped and miss the test to avoid a positive. As they have 3 strikes they can take 2 missed tests and then as JV says sit it out till they are back to one missed test.

 

[just some guy]

How do you know JV ignored the fact?
You do realize that Dekker is the only rider to have been caught by retro analysis of a sample done by the UCI.

Also, JV says it looked obvious he doped in 07, 08 - but also obvious that Dekker had stopped in 09.

Which begs a more serious question - if it was obvious to JV, then why didn't the UCI go after Dekker through the Bio Passport.

Thats exactly what I thought - JV I looked at the blood values not we as in a doping specialist.

If JV can see what about the panel ?

 

[hektoren]

How do you know JV ignored the fact?
You do realize that Dekker is the only rider to have been caught by retro analysis of a sample done by the UCI.

Also, JV says it looked obvious he doped in 07, 08 - but also obvious that Dekker had stopped in 09.

Which begs a more serious question - if it was obvious to JV, then why didn't the UCI go after Dekker through the Bio Passport.

Of course he didn't ignore the fact, he didn't hire him s'all. But he sure didn't spill the beans to Silence-Lotto folks either. There were rumours concerning Dekker in 2008. The retro testing could very well have come about as a result of those rumours. JV wasn't the only one to have seen the blood-values from those '07-tests.

 

[screaming fist]

Thats exactly what I thought - JV I looked at the blood values not we as in a doping specialist.

If JV can see what about the panel ?

Well, there's a difference about blood values telling people someone's doping and those values being justiciable

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Well, there's a difference about blood values telling people someone's doping and those values being justiciable

Exactly.

Interesting that according to JV, Dekker had "got a letter from the UCI" (29:36) and it appears he was arguing with JV's interpretation of his blood values on that basis. Wonder if that was one of those 'we are sweet with your silly hemoglobin concentration' letters.

 

[Granville57]

Exactly.

Interesting that according to JV, Dekker had "got a letter from the UCI" (32:40) and it appears he was arguing with JV's interpretation of his blood values on that basis. Wonder if that was one of those 'we are sweet with your silly hemoglobin concentration' letters.

Fixed that.

Yeah, it's too bad JV's train of thought got interrupted at that exact moment because I would love to hear him elaborate that point a bit. If Dekker was suggesting that he had a "letter from the UCI" that somehow assured that he was riding clean, then just what the hell was that, and why was JV able to so easily ascertain what others couldn't or wouldn't from looking at Dekker's blood values?

And what did Dekker think he was sending JV that wouldn't give him away at that time? That's what I don't get.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Yeah, it's too bad JV's train of thought got interrupted at that exact moment because I would love to hear him elaborate that point a bit. If Dekker was suggesting that he had a "letter from the UCI" that somehow assured that he was riding clean, then just what the hell was that, and why was JV able to so easily ascertain what others couldn't or wouldn't from looking at Dekker's blood values?

And what did Dekker think he was sending JV that wouldn't give him away at that time? That's what I don't get.

To the bold: I really think that is the difference between the most likely conclusion (JV's) and extreme values that could lead to a sanction.

IIRC, as well as the high hemoglobin leave pass, the UCI also ask riders with odd blood values to explain themselves, before any further action is taken. I guess a reply accepting Dekker's explanation is another possibility. Either could plausible account for Dekker thinking the blood values he gave JV wouldn't give him away, if indeed that is what he was thinking.