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"VENDETTA" ITALIANA in VALVERDE BANNED.

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May 11, 2009
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I think most of us already connected those dots a while ago, why they never prosecuted anyone on the list except a select short list is beyond me.

It's not through lack of trying. The Spanish anti-doping authorities along with UCI, WADA etc have tried to get the blood bags before. It's just the Spanish courts (especially one particular judge) keep blocking them from getting access, otherwise too many Spanish sportsmen would get caught (not just cyclists: footballers, tennis players, huge stars).
The only reason CONI was able to get the bloodbags was because the particular judge was on vacation, so they just stepped in, made out as though nobody had ever blocked them getting access to them, and hey presto, success
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I personally think that there are a couple of messages with this case.

1. The Spanish judiciary and not the cycling federation are to blame for the lack of action on Operation Puerto. Hence, the Spanish cycling federation should not be blamed for any perceived inaction (or, I hate to say it, the UCI). Furthermore, the inaction on OP by the Spanish judiciary was based on the fact that the specific law could not be retroactively applied. While I do not condone these laws, you have to respect each country's laws. I can see why some would be upset with CONI for this reason.

2. While I have no problems with Valverde receiving his appropriate punishment, I do have problems that only a few high profile names have been prosecuted and that they are only cyclists. If the authorities really wanted to do something about this, then open the gates and don't target particular athletes. The Real Madrids and Rafael Nadals of this world shouldn't be protected because of their sport, status, or money (to sue). If they cannot prosecute everyone, then I don't think they should target anyone. Let it go and move on.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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elapid said:
I personally think that there are a couple of messages with this case.

1. The Spanish judiciary and not the cycling federation are to blame for the lack of action on Operation Puerto. Hence, the Spanish cycling federation should not be blamed for any perceived inaction (or, I hate to say it, the UCI). Furthermore, the inaction on OP by the Spanish judiciary was based on the fact that the specific law could not be retroactively applied. While I do not condone these laws, you have to respect each country's laws. I can see why some would be upset with CONI for this reason.

2. While I have no problems with Valverde receiving his appropriate punishment, I do have problems that only a few high profile names have been prosecuted and that they are only cyclists. If the authorities really wanted to do something about this, then open the gates and don't target particular athletes. The Real Madrids and Rafael Nadals of this world shouldn't be protected because of their sport, status, or money (to sue). If they cannot prosecute everyone, then I don't think they should target anyone. Let it go and move on.

Agreed.

To clarify, I do not think many legal systems accept to pass retroactive laws, ie that something that wasn't punishable in the past has become so, by the new law.

The only time that happened on a grand scale, was during the Neuremberg Trials, when Nazi's were convicted of crimes that 'weren't crimes in their domestic environment at the time'. International criminal law or human rights that made such offenses punishable, didnt exist yet and were created in the act.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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Crommy said:
It's not through lack of trying. The Spanish anti-doping authorities along with UCI, WADA etc have tried to get the blood bags before. It's just the Spanish courts (especially one particular judge) keep blocking them from getting access, otherwise too many Spanish sportsmen would get caught (not just cyclists: footballers, tennis players, huge stars).
The only reason CONI was able to get the bloodbags was because the particular judge was on vacation, so they just stepped in, made out as though nobody had ever blocked them getting access to them, and hey presto, success

There are Spanish anti-doping authorities?
 
Some clarifications: RFEC (Spanish sporting authorities) actually gave some mixed messages regarding what they were trying to do, but for the most part you are correct. It was Justice Serrano that said it was not to be released. RFEC wanted most of all to go after Fuentes and Saiz first, the riders, they weren't as interested. RFEC however did support Valverde's appeal in 2006 to enter the World's, as then OP investigation was ongoing.

The statute of limitations on doping as far as the UCI is concerned is 8 years. It's pretty likely Valverde had his blood drawn for Fuentes in 2005. No dates however are listed on the blood bag (really, a bag of plasma), nor in Fuentes books, with Valverden's name, or code name (Valv-Piti) next to them.

We discussed much of this before, and I made some extremely long, but detailed posts in this thread here.

Also discussed in this thread here.

Albertino - I think your passion outweighs your logic here. I think the 2006 Vuelta is a very good example of your argument though. Valverde rode great in the first week. Then held on in the second, and faded in the third and was exhausted at the end, while Vino & Kashi were doped up to their eyeballs and breezed to victory, looking very strong in the final week. None the less, this doesn't excuse the fact that about 4 years ago, Valverde at the very least intended to dope. Why he will receive a much tougher suspension than others who intended to dope (Basso, Diluca) and tougher than some that actually did dope (Petacchi) from the same organization (CONI) is highly suspect.

I still would like to know why for the last three years there has been such an effort to nail Valverde? He had one bag of plasma in Fuentes clinic, and his name appeared a few times in the ledgers. While several other riders retired, some were busted (Ullrich, Basso), and a few blacklisted - whether fairly or not - CONI, and the UCI have pretty much ignored many others entirely and focused on one man, and one man only: Alejandro Valverde.

Why?
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Some clarifications: RFEC (Spanish sporting authorities) actually gave some mixed messages regarding what they were trying to do, but for the most part you are correct. It was Justice Serrano that said it was not to be released. RFEC wanted most of all to go after Fuentes and Saiz first, the riders, they weren't as interested. RFEC however did support Valverde's appeal in 2006 to enter the World's, as then OP investigation was ongoing.

Moreover, RFEC have supported Valverde once again saying that CONI has no right to rule on a Spanish rider. RFEC President Juan Carlos Castano is seeking an immediate meeting with UCI President Pat McQuaid. Perhaps the RFEC should expend more energy cleaning up Spanish cycling?
 
Bala Verde said:
Just to play the devil's advocate.

Yes, there is a far fetched case to be made that the fact that he appears in ledgers and that his blood was in stock it doesn't mean per se that he did cheat and even more far fetched that he didn't even intend to cheat but to me those ideas are so improbable that I don't think any jury in the world would use that excuse to let anyone off the hook without further proof that there was no intention to dope.

To me it's equivalent to Boonen saying that someone spiked his drink with coke. It's theoretically possible but so far fetched that it would take a very gullible person to believe it at face value.
 
ALBERTIÑO said:
Hey people. Valverde hasnt won all his triumph dopped. He never was positive in a controll. Everydoy know about cycling he is a very good rider. Dont blame on him. All this come from op, 5 years ago. When he was in another team, kelme,: Why css has to pay this crap.?? Valverde send his dna to match any proves in op. He has said several times that this is rubish and never take nothing. If valverde were dopped why always is in the 3rd week race as tired?.
The way he race and win is not for a dopped cyclist. He has talent and is strong. Dont say nonsense if there isnt any substancial evidences: The prove about "pity" blood bag is no enough, in order of law, to retire a cyclist.

Hilarious! :D:D:D

Riis never had a positive.

The Spanish "authorities" protect dopers.

CONI is correct.
 
Leopejo said:
No I don't think it's politically motivated, nor about a power struggle. It's just that they seize every opportunity to get a cleaner sport, regardless of nationality of riders involved - all keeping it legal, or so they say. France is doing the same, Germany too.

Have to disagree. I think there is a political motivation behind Coni's interests in first getting a hold of the Piti-Valve blood sack and then prooving it belongs to Valverde. That Coni nailed Basso and Scarponi, while the Spanish authorities have clearly covered for their athletes (and not just cyclists) involved in OP by brushing, as it were, what could have been the doping scandal of the century under the carpet, had seemed an intollerable offence to the Italians' efforts in these case to pursue their doped athletes with seriousness. And to send a clear messabe to the Spanish authorities that they aren't playing the anti-doping game fairly.

Having said that, the outcome, whether politically motivated or not, remains the same. Valverde is guilty. And that babble spouted out by the initiator of this feed is pathetic and insipid ideology.:cool:
 
rhubroma said:
Have to disagree. I think there is a political motivation behind Coni's interests in first getting a hold of the Piti-Valve blood sack and then prooving it belongs to Valverde. That Coni nailed Basso and Scarponi, while the Spanish authorities have clearly covered for their athletes (and not just cyclists) involved in OP by brushing, as it were, what could have been the doping scandal of the century under the carpet, had seemed an intollerable offence to the Italians' efforts in these case to pursue their doped athletes with seriousness. And to send a clear message to the Spanish authorities that they aren't playing the anti-doping game fairly.

That's my take on it, too.
Happens in Spain.
Mostly Spanish riders and "other stars".
Germans and Italians pursued and sanctioned.
Spanish all cleared.
Makes you wonder why they bothered in the first place, but they were quite happy when it was foreign riders taking the heat.

So, Ullrich and Basso taken out of the equation in 2006 and the next three winners of the Tour are all Spanish!

If only Rafa Nadal's name hadn't come out in the wash.....
 
Mar 10, 2009
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rhubroma said:
Have to disagree.
Not the first time we disagree... :p

I think there is a political motivation behind Coni's interests in first getting a hold of the Piti-Valve blood sack and then prooving it belongs to Valverde. That Coni nailed Basso and Scarponi, while the Spanish authorities have clearly covered for their athletes (and not just cyclists) involved in OP by brushing, as it were, what could have been the doping scandal of the century under the carpet, had seemed an intollerable offence to the Italians' efforts in these case to pursue their doped athletes with seriousness. And to send a clear messabe to the Spanish authorities that they aren't playing the anti-doping game fairly.
The Italian Olympic Committee's antidoping unit has always been quite stubborn in their activities, often clashing with federations and athletes. I don't think they yield to political pressures. That others - like the Italian Cycling Federation - jump on their bandwagon, is another issue.
 
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Leopejo said:
Not the first time we disagree... :p


The Italian Olympic Committee's antidoping unit has always been quite stubborn in their activities, often clashing with federations and athletes. I don't think they yield to political pressures. That others - like the Italian Cycling Federation - jump on their bandwagon, is another issue.

good on em.. done what the spanish wouldnt..

only a couple of weeks ago, the italians where first to announce which of there athletes had failed tests at the olympics.. have we actually heard from anyone else yet, or it is just cycling taking the rap for that one..
 
dimspace said:
good on em.. done what the spanish wouldnt..

only a couple of weeks ago, the italians where first to announce which of there athletes had failed tests at the olympics.. have we actually heard from anyone else yet, or it is just cycling taking the rap for that one..

Yes, all names were revealed just a day or two after CONI named Rebellin. They were the fastest to reveal their name but only by half a wheel length.
 
Leopejo said:
Not the first time we disagree... :p


The Italian Olympic Committee's antidoping unit has always been quite stubborn in their activities, often clashing with federations and athletes. I don't think they yield to political pressures. That others - like the Italian Cycling Federation - jump on their bandwagon, is another issue.

Ahhh man. To think that in CONI's pursuit of a foreign athlete, and a Spanish one at that, after Basso and OP has no political basis whatsoever is, francly, rediculous.

It's like Zomengen is an above board guy, that Simeoni isn't being ostracised, etc, that everything is "as it appears." Sorry I think you're way of thinking is foolish. With do respect of course...
 
Mar 10, 2009
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rhubroma said:
Ahhh man. To think that in CONI's pursuit of a foreign athlete, and a Spanish one at that, after Basso and OP has no political basis whatsoever is, francly, rediculous.

It's like Zomengen is an above board guy, that Simeoni isn't being ostracised, etc, that everything is "as it appears." Sorry I think you're way of thinking is foolish. With do respect of course...
Frankly, I have the same high opinion of you and your conspiracy theories. ;)