Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Aug 16, 2011
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webvan said:
Of course not, hence my previous message, but you don't seem to be reading posts properly today (see "ahead") so I'll leave you at it. In any case I'll stick to my story that Nibali is hyped as a GT rider and won't win any GTs with in-form Wiggins/Contador/Froome/"future true GT greats" participating.
I can give you Froome and Contador, but Wiggins? A podium at the vuelta and a Tour win doesn't give him a better GT record or make him a better GT rider then Nibali in his current state. Especially with him unlikely to ever do another GT again.
 
I can understand that some people don't like the man but come on. He's only one of the few who podiumed in all three GTs while winning two. 2007-2008 top 20 and after that top 10 in all GTs where he was riding. He was riding for Basso at Liquigas and this is the first year since he is undisputed leader on his way to win a second GT in a year. If he will succeed he'll join the Merckx/Battaglin/Contador club. I'm sure somewhere down the line a TdF is also possible. Sure Froome looks stronger but Wiggins? He's over and to me he was a manufactured GT contender who failed miserably in this year's Giro. Contador? If they would have met this year in a GT it would have been a disaster for Alberto.
 
saunaking said:
Until today? Like nobody took Hesjedal seriously in the Giro last year
Yes, until today. They have to now keep him in check, if possible from now on. Right now there are 5 riders in that category: Nibali, Valverde, Purito, Basso and Horner. I'm impressed with Roche's performance thus far and hope he can maintain it but I think as the Vuelta progresses he will steadily lose time to the big 5.
 
Rollthedice said:
I can understand that some people don't like the man but come on. He's only one of the few who podiumed in all three GTs while winning two. 2007-2008 top 20 and after that top 10 in all GTs where he was riding. He was riding for Basso at Liquigas and this is the first year since he is undisputed leader on his way to win a second GT in a year. If he will succeed he'll join the Merckx/Battaglin/Contador club. I'm sure somewhere down the line a TdF is also possible. Sure Froome looks stronger but Wiggins? He's over and to me he was a manufactured GT contender who failed miserably in this year's Giro. Contador? If they would have met this year in a GT it would have been a disaster for Alberto.
In a bad year against arguably stiffer competition than was present by the end of the 2012 Tour Contador still just missed out on a Tour podium. Nibali has made progress in his climbing and his ITT but IMO if anything he's potentially brought himself up to where Contador has fallen to not to where he's fallen from.

Wiggins was in the right Tour at the right time with a lieutenant that was stronger than him but with his hands tied. I wouldn't say he was manufactured but I would say that his decision not to pursue another Tour win speaks more to his realization that the 2012 Tour parcours was a gift from above as was the circumstances of that Tour.
 
Angliru said:
In a bad year against arguably stiffer competition than was present by the end of the 2012 Tour Contador still just missed out on a Tour podium. Nibali has made progress in his climbing and his ITT but IMO if anything he's potentially brought himself up to where Contador has fallen to not to where he's fallen from.

Wiggins was in the right Tour at the right time with a lieutenant that was stronger than him but with his hands tied. I wouldn't say he was manufactured but I would say that his decision not to pursue another Tour win speaks more to his realization that the 2012 Tour parcours was a gift from above as was the circumstances of that Tour.
Nibali is above where Contador has fallen, let's say somewhere in the middle between the great Alberto and the one who was 6 minutes and half to Froome in this years TdF. My personal opinion is that Contador will not be able to get back to his pre-suspension level, sure he'll be competitive but it will be damn hard to beat the likes of Nibali and Quintana (Froome seems untouchable). We'll just wait and see what next year will bring. But back to Nibali, since this thread is about him, time will tell if he'll become a legend or just a very good GT rider. He's still 28 and an exciting rider to watch.
 
webvan said:
Sounds like we're saying the same thing, an exciting and pretty unique rider, but not a GT great.
Most GT podiums (active riders):

Alberto Contador 5
Cadel Evans 5
Vincenzo Nibali 5
Ivan Basso 5

Alejandro Valverde 4
Joaquim Rodriguez 4
Andy Schleck 4

Chris Froome 3
Samuel Sanchez 3

Bradley Wiggins 2


Most GT top10 (active riders)*:

Cadel Evans 10

Ivan Basso 9
Alejandro Valverde 9

Joaquim Rodriguez 8

Vincenzo Nibali 7

Alberto Contador 6
Samuel Sanchez 6

Andy Schleck 4
Chris Froome 4

Bradley Wiggins 3


But of course it's all about weak fields.



*This is not a comprehensive list
 
SafeBet said:
Most GT podiums (active riders):

Alberto Contador 5
Cadel Evans 5
Vincenzo Nibali 5
Ivan Basso 5

Alejandro Valverde 4
Joaquim Rodriguez 4
Andy Schleck 4

Chris Froome 3
Samuel Sanchez 3

Bradley Wiggins 2


Most GT top10 (active riders)*:

Cadel Evans 10

Ivan Basso 9
Alejandro Valverde 9

Joaquim Rodriguez 8

Vincenzo Nibali 7

Alberto Contador 6
Samuel Sanchez 6

Andy Schleck 4
Chris Froome 4

Bradley Wiggins 3


But of course it's all about weak fields.



*This is not a comprehensive list
Wiggins has 3 podiums
 
del1962 said:
Wiggins has 3 podiums
Was just going to say that.

When Lance's results were purged, the older results were just wiped, the comeback results had people promoted, so Wiggo is #3 in 2009.

I don't think he really feels he podiumed, but the records show he did.
 
There is a difference in podiums vs Wins; Great vs Very Good vs Good.

Contador towers above everyone on that list, Nibs is 2nd, Basso is from a different generation and the only other one with 2 Wins.

Work the figures however you want, Nibali still comes out #2 :)
 
Again, I for one quite like Nibali's style, he makes the races more interesting, but spin it like you want, I don't think he's any better in 2013 than he was in the 2012 TDF when he couldn't put a single second into Wiggins (and Froome) in the mountains and got trounced in the ITTs. His 2013 Giro win was pretty spectacular but, yes, the field was weak, just like at the final GC...how is Uran doing these days and how did Evans do in the TDF? Ok...

The field is stronger in this current Vueta but the better GT riders, Purito and VV are just off the TDF so can't be expected to be too much of a factor in the long run. Without the TDF it's unlikely Nibali would have put anything into them at this point.
 
webvan said:
Again, I for one quite like Nibali's style, he makes the races more interesting, but spin it like you want, I don't think he's any better in 2013 than he was in the 2012 TDF when he couldn't put a single second into Wiggins (and Froome) in the mountains and got trounced in the ITTs. His 2013 Giro win was pretty spectacular but, yes, the field was weak, just like at the final GC...how is Uran doing these days and how did Evans do in the TDF? Ok...

The field is stronger in this current Vueta but the better GT riders, Purito and VV are just off the TDF so can't be expected to be too much of a factor in the long run. Without the TDF it's unlikely Nibali would have put anything into them at this point.
Purito and Valverde aren't the only ones in bad shape either. Nibali himself isn't.
Yet you say the field is better here.
 
Oct 17, 2011
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webvan said:
Again, I for one quite like Nibali's style, he makes the races more interesting, but spin it like you want, I don't think he's any better in 2013 than he was in the 2012 TDF when he couldn't put a single second into Wiggins (and Froome) in the mountains and got trounced in the ITTs. His 2013 Giro win was pretty spectacular but, yes, the field was weak, just like at the final GC...how is Uran doing these days and how did Evans do in the TDF? Ok...

The field is stronger in this current Vueta but the better GT riders, Purito and VV are just off the TDF so can't be expected to be too much of a factor in the long run. Without the TDF it's unlikely Nibali would have put anything into them at this point.
Ferrari seems to disagree:

"At least 2 kg lighter compared to past seasons, Nibali has progressed both in climbing and time trialling, and clearly demonstrated to be the best in all the difficult situations in this year's Giro."
 
In a GT there is only one winner and 197 losers. Only the win counts for a GT great. For a cyclist to be a GT Great, he needs to win 3 TDFs or 4 GTs or 3 GTs in a single season. How he wins, against whom he wins is not the question but that he wins. From the current crop, there is only Contador with 5 wins. Wiggins/Evans/Sastre are all one off wonders. Oscar Pereiro is simply a miracle. Basso & Nibali come the closest with 2 GTs out of which only Nibali has a chance. I do make an exception for the late Laurent Fignon. I consider him to be a GT great because of 2 TDFs, 1 Giro and 2nd in the 1989 TDF by 8 seconds along with 2 MSRs.

In terms of performance
Froome 2013> Nibali 2013>Wiggins 2012>Contador 2013>Nibali 2012

In this Vuelta, Nibali lacks explosiveness which the other riders seem to have but when the going goes tougher, he simply seems to find another gear. In stage 10, he simply put pressure and distanced Valverde with ease. Then again when chasing Horner, when he attacked nobody even attempted to follow. Baring misfortune, Nibali will win this Vuelta.
I think Nibali is using Horner as a tactical foil. The thinking being "I know i can catch him in the GC but if you want to save your positions, chase"
 
Aug 16, 2011
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webvan said:
Again, I for one quite like Nibali's style, he makes the races more interesting, but spin it like you want, I don't think he's any better in 2013 than he was in the 2012 TDF when he couldn't put a single second into Wiggins (and Froome) in the mountains and got trounced in the ITTs. His 2013 Giro win was pretty spectacular but, yes, the field was weak, just like at the final GC...how is Uran doing these days and how did Evans do in the TDF? Ok...

The field is stronger in this current Vueta but the better GT riders, Purito and VV are just off the TDF so can't be expected to be too much of a factor in the long run. Without the TDF it's unlikely Nibali would have put anything into them at this point.
That's not really fair to Nibali. Uran is a great talent as he has proved multiple times. The fact that he's not at his best form in a race where he wasn't even the original leader for the team and is probably focused more on using the race to prepare for worlds doesn't qualify him as weak competition in a race which he is on form for.

Evans, sure, he's not the greatest competition at this point in his career. But did you seriously expect him to do anything more then he did at the Tour?
 
Oct 17, 2011
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The Vuelta performance Nibali has shown so far, and then comparing that to riders in the tdf can't even be done. Nibali himself has said that a second peek is way harder then the first peak in the year to obtain, and that it does not last as long...
 
May 19, 2011
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oh NO:eek:

According to Luca Gialanella of Gazzetta dello Sport, Nibali's wasp sting incident in fact took place yesterday and that he would this morning with a swollen forehead. As Astana is a member of the MPCC, Nibali has been unable to treat the wasp sting with cortisone, and so he is apparently in some discomfort. So far, Nibali has looked quick smooth out on the course, but we'll get a better indication when he hits the first time check.
 
maxmartin said:
oh NO:eek:

According to Luca Gialanella of Gazzetta dello Sport, Nibali's wasp sting incident in fact took place yesterday and that he would this morning with a swollen forehead. As Astana is a member of the MPCC, Nibali has been unable to treat the wasp sting with cortisone, and so he is apparently in some discomfort. So far, Nibali has looked quick smooth out on the course, but we'll get a better indication when he hits the first time check.
No problemo, he'll be in red my friend :)
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Nibali's got everything in control. He's calm, collected, and everything is going exactly to plan. :)
 
He looked good today, tranquillo, fluid and powerful :) The race is now his to win!

Hopefully there is no long term reaction from that wasp bite.....I'm not fall down in shock allergic but if I don't get a steroid shot within 12 hours the swelling is dreadful.
 

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