Vino and Astana

[Jimatix]

I cannot believe that Vino is such a hyocrit s to bad mouth Kashaikin for being suspended for two years and saying he will have a hard time coming back to Astana. Vino was busted for the same thing , at the same time, but Vino was able to come diretcly back to Astana without any repercussions to Astana.
In order for anyone to engane in blood doping, they must have had that blood taken several weeks before and planned on it all the time. Same way as with any doping.That is unlessthere is a doper guy hanging aound all the team hotels, "just in case"a rider needs a quick "pick me up".

 

[scribe]

The title of this thread was a dead giveaway that you posted it in the wrong forum.

 

[Anonymous]

i think maybe clarification of the actual article would be a good idea..

from my memory, vino as figurehead of astana was approached by the UCI and told that basically having one rider on the team that had served a ban was something that could be overlooked to an extent by the UCI, but having two riders on the team that had served a ban was likely to leave the team to be viewed in a bad light and could effect their chances of being in the tour and getting invites to other races etc...
Vino was pretty much put in a no win situation, and he reported fairly honestly that he had spoken to Kash, explained the situation to him, and his hands where pretty much tied..

Vino isnt really in a position to ignore advice from the UCI..

if this thread is regarding vinos comments, and the UCI advice then fine if you wish to discuss "clinical" matters then you will find a "clinic section for such discussions"..

personally i think this one can be discussed without venturing into clinic territory. it was a racing decision, and pretty much he UCI pulling rank over astana, which with Pro Tour licence decisions a few days away Vino has no choice but to take on board..

 

[Galic Ho]

dimspace take on the Vino/Kash dilemma is right on the money. To those who think he was bashing or being spiteful you are seeing something that isn't there. Vino and Astana have their hands tied and he was simply being a realist. Astana can ill afford to get back in the UCI bad books. Contador will bring some leeway given his stature in cycling but give the UCI a reason to not renew the Pro Tour license and he walks. For the immediate future Astana have to distance themselves fro Kash. Two bad eggs equates to the end of the team. One is forgiveable.

 

[Mathew]

Still though, Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[Willow22]

Having said that though Dim, there does seem to be some bad blood between the two (if you'll pardon the pun). Wasn't there a race recently where there were very noticeably seperate in their warm ups etc. I'm thinking maybe it was the world champs.

I agree totally with your take on the point that the UCI (and I'd say Vino is more particularly worried about ASO and TdF invite) would have said hey we can overlook one proven ex-doper (and the point about proven is deliberate, but that belongs in the Clinic), but not multiple. And obviously, if Astana can only have one, its going to be Vino.

But, I'm just wondering if there isn't more to it, and the UCI thing is an excuse.

 

[Anonymous]

i dunno, if i go out with the wife, and at some point during the night i am noticably at one end of the bar with mates, and she is noticable in the pool room with other freinds, have we fallen out, or just co-incidence.. think too much gets read into stuff sometimes.. but you may be right..

vino says hes spoke to kash.. i beleive him.. on the whole (with the exception of one obvious incident), vino is pretty up front and honest with his opinions..

 

[halamala]

Astana is still in serious problems?

http://astanafans.com/

KazakhNeRider, if you read this, could you tell us what is going on.

 

[anubisza]

If they want to get invites to any races next year, they have to really keep their noses clean. They can't afford the controversy of having Kash and Vino in the same team, and unfortunately for Kash, Astana is Vino's, so he needs to find work elsewhere.

 

[KazakhNeRider]

Astana is still in financial trouble. Sponsor was changed during a season and money for the team weren't planned for 2009 (we hope that situation for 2010 should be better, because a budget of Astana is included in a general budget of Samruk), so each time it's not so easy to find unplanned money for next transfer.

 

[Michele]

Vino is trying to play the card of being a "good guy" (by pushing Kasheckin out) and so far seems UCI is ok with that.

 

[Anonymous]

Vino is trying to play the card of being a "good guy" (by pushing Kasheckin out) and so far seems UCI is ok with that.

I think the UCI have all the cards, and Vino is playing with whatever is on the table to be honest, and hoping that the river does him a few favours..

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

A few favors is really all Vino can hope for; he has pretty much lost all credibility with the UCI, and he has to play it real safe. Kash, unfortunately for him, is the casualty.

Not really basing this on anything, it's just a hunch, but I don't think Astana will receive ProTour status or even a wildcard invite to the Tour. It seems like this is all a formality ultimately leading the UCI's denial of ProTour status. There's too much uncertainty surrounding that team. I hope that's not the case though, as I would like to see them there.

 

[Anonymous]

i think astana are being made scapegoat for an awful lot to be honest

there are several teams had riders chucked out that dont receive the same sort of treatment from the UCI...

unless of course this really is about technical things like financial guarantees etc..

 

[Boeing]

Vino is a tool and if Contador stays Vino will be off the Tour roster

 

[Mellow Velo]

Vino is a tool and if Contador stays Vino will be off the Tour roster

I wouldn't bet the house on that.

As for Vino, he's as much of a tool as the next guy.
There are a lot of tools in cycling's toolbox, that remain undiscovered.

 

[yakko!]

Vino is a tool and if Contador stays Vino will be off the Tour roster

Who knows, maybe he and Kash are tools and Bert said "you (Vino) can't ride the Tour, and your friend (Kash), he's history too..."

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

i think astana are being made scapegoat for an awful lot to be honest

there are several teams had riders chucked out that dont receive the same sort of treatment from the UCI...

unless of course this really is about technical things like financial guarantees etc..

That's why I don't have a good feeling. It really does seem like they are cycling's scapegoat.

 

[karlboss]

I don't think they'll be scapegoated until contador leaves, too much to lose if Contador is implicated in anything. Its in the interest of the UCI to cut them some slack for a time. The sponsors have been late with money, but they have hung in through some pretty big scandals, I imagine the UCI would want sponsors to know that the world doesn't end with a positive test.

 

[350Watts]

Having said that though Dim, there does seem to be some bad blood between the two (if you'll pardon the pun). Wasn't there a race recently where there were very noticeably seperate in their warm ups etc. I'm thinking maybe it was the world champs.

I agree totally with your take on the point that the UCI (and I'd say Vino is more particularly worried about ASO and TdF invite) would have said hey we can overlook one proven ex-doper (and the point about proven is deliberate, but that belongs in the Clinic), but not multiple. And obviously, if Astana can only have one, its going to be Vino.

But, I'm just wondering if there isn't more to it, and the UCI thing is an excuse.

Maybe neither one wanted to be seen cavorting with a convicted doper.

 

[flicker]

No absolution

I personally love the guy. Blue eyed blond asian,ex eastern block.
Fully an opportunistic pro; I love it attacking last day of tour and taking places on Levi(the wimp) Leipheimer.
His attacks are inspirational and sometimes get him wins.(Although sometimes non-senseical) I realize he dumped his doping partner KASH.for business reasons. It is a sad move by Vino albeit necessary.
The way he came back to racing:strong and aggressive,whats not to like.
As to the enhancement,I have done my research and a large percentage of the
Peloton has been caught or is suspect. I do not advocate cheating but if they all do it its just leveling the playing field.
I have been reading up and during the 90s and 00 years the pros have all been doped up. Not just Lance,Tyler,Floyd,Alex v.,KASH.
Sorry to see Kash. bagged, unfair yes but a sacrifice to bag Contador and have Astana maybe ride the Tour
Yes he may have had extra prepareation before his comeback but who hasn't.

 

[benpounder]

Vino isnt really in a position to ignore advice from the UCI..

I've been told by a friend on the inside that one of the reasons the former Astana team (now RadioShack) had such problems with a Vino return was the fact that as a "retired" racer, he was not subject to any testing. Scuttlebutt has it that during his "retirement" he continued his... training regime. If true, then he would have every reason to try and "cleanse" the new Astana; himself excluded from normal rules, of course.

 

[python]

I've been told by a friend on the inside that one of the reasons the former Astana team (now RadioShack) had such problems with a Vino return was the fact that as a "retired" racer, he was not subject to any testing. Scuttlebutt has it that during his "retirement" he continued his... training regime. If true, then he would have every reason to try and "cleanse" the new Astana; himself excluded from normal rules, of course.

i call it obvious bs as in bull shyte. u must be confusing the uci bending it's 6 months (mandatory testing prior to un-retirement) rule for armstrong with vino's full compliance.


bru himself explained his problems with vino several times. first, it was his condition for taking astana when biver was kicked out ("vino is not coming back under my watch). indeed the kazakhs promised it. second, it was bru's resentment at vino's open threats to bru.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I've been told by a friend on the inside that one of the reasons the former Astana team (now RadioShack) had such problems with a Vino return was the fact that as a "retired" racer, he was not subject to any testing.

Then, your "insider" needs to get out more.
Armstrong was also a retired racer, who was not subjected to the full testing protocols, before returning to racing.
No doubt he followed his tried and tested training regime, too.
So, that dog just don't hunt.


Actually, the former Astana team is once again, Astana.
RadioShack are simply the Shack: new team.

 

[KazakhNeRider]

I've been told by a friend on the inside that one of the reasons the former Astana team (now RadioShack) had such problems with a Vino return was the fact that as a "retired" racer, he was not subject to any testing.

Vino as well as Lance were object of testing since 6 months before first race, it's a rule of UCI (for Lance it was a few days less before Tour Down Under, but UCI agreed to let him start)