Voigt's Response after Stage 3

[Anonymous]

And a good thing to, Imagine if that kind of thing was common!

I don't know if you read any web comics but this one is very apropos.
Fair enough, my objection and I think the objection of others I think were really more to the phrasing than anything else. It's not like there's some objective standard for what is and is not appropriate for a GT.

My wife saw that cartoon sometime back and mentions it often...sadly.

 

[Cerberus]

My wife saw that cartoon sometime back and mentions it often...sadly.

I can imagine, I can never quite decide whether it's funny cause it's true or if it's sad for the same reason. Probably both.

 

[Angliru]

Ok that guy is carrying way too much weight even for the cobbles.

I thought Jens's comments were typical from someone who is balls-tired right after a stage and is frustrated at losing a friend and team leader to injury. Who hasn't snapped out like that? It doesn't change my opinion of him. I disagree with him that this stage was inappropriate for a grand tour. As others have said, a mountain descent can take down a GT contender just as quickly (ask Beloki) and a TTT can put a big time loss into a GT contender who doesn't have strong teammates. Cobbles are an integral part of northern French racing and northern France is an integral part of the country that they are racing around. I know the stage was mostly in Belgium, bear with me. I didn't like seeing Andy Schleck complaining before the stage but I sure liked how he rode it.

I don't consider the riders privileged for getting massages as it is an important part of their recovery for the next stage. It's not a luxury to them, it's a necessity. Kind of like a trial lawyer having a team of assistants researching case law for him. He sure didn't have that kind of help in law school but he sure needs it to be successful at the top tier of his profession.

The Tour has evolved away from having the cobbles as a regular feature in the parcours I would guess as the gc participants have evolved from those that rode the cobbled classics every year or so to those that avoid them like the plague. Even Hinault didn't like the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix inspite of winning the event. He publicly let his disdain for participating in the event be known. Now I doubt anyone would call Hinault "soft".

 

[2wheels]

Again, any of you that can provide a coherent argument that riding over cobbles is inherently more dangerous that riding the descents of the mountain passages, feel free to make it because the holes in it are so numerous that one barely need comment on said objection to prove it is ridiculous. But please, feel free.

Mountain descents aren't typically done with 192 guys going shoulder-to-shoulder. The previous climb has thinned the ranks, so you usually have room to maneuver your bike and a bit of time to react-- and, you can choose the speed you're comfortable with. Crashes on descents don't bring down thirty guys, nor do they plug the road and penalize the riders stuck behind them. Cobbled sectors on a flat stage in the first week of the Tour are guaranteed to be a rugby match; forcing the peloton to ride them in tight formation is like trying to play billiards on a vibrating table. Way too much randomness; it's just playing dice with the Tour to have them in the first week.

Anyone implying that Voigt's comments at the finish line make him a *** "barely need comment" on anything involving cycling.

 

[Anonymous]

Mountain descents aren't typically done with 192 guys going shoulder-to-shoulder. The previous climb has thinned the ranks, so you usually have room to maneuver your bike and a bit of time to react-- and, you can choose the speed you're comfortable with. Crashes on descents don't bring down thirty guys, nor do they plug the road and penalize the riders stuck behind them. Cobbled sectors on a flat stage in the first week of the Tour are guaranteed to be a rugby match; forcing the peloton to ride them in tight formation is like trying to play billiards on a vibrating table. Way too much randomness; it's just playing dice with the Tour to have them in the first week.

Anyone implying that Voigt's comments at the finish line make him a *** "barely need comment" on anything involving cycling.

You may not think it appropriate to have a cobbled section in the TdF. That's ok with me. I just disagree with you.

I think JV's comments don't qualify him as a ***, but he was whining to be sure. I can criticise him for making those comments and, like you, I have a right to my opinion.

BTW, the crash on decent the day before plugged the road and was more than 30 guys. I guess we should not descend if it's raining. Get rid of those stages where there could be a cross-wind too. Far too random...

 

[Anonymous]

Mountain descents aren't typically done with 192 guys going shoulder-to-shoulder.

There were not 192 guys shoulder to shoulder when Frank crashed.

The previous climb has thinned the ranks, so you usually have room to maneuver your bike and a bit of time to react-- and, you can choose the speed you're comfortable with.

Yea, the cobbles thinned things out too.

Crashes on descents don't bring down thirty guys, nor do they plug the road and penalize the riders stuck behind them.

Franks crash didn't bring down thirty guys either. I think you will also note that the day before, many more riders were brought down on....wait for it......a descent. Now, grant that it was caused by oil, but hey, just sayin'.

Cobbled sectors on a flat stage in the first week of the Tour are guaranteed to be a rugby match; forcing the peloton to ride them in tight formation is like trying to play billiards on a vibrating table. Way too much randomness; it's just playing dice with the Tour to have them in the first week.

Again, I ask anyone to show me a proportionately higher number of serious crashes resulting in injury or death due to cobbles over descents.

Anyone implying that Voigt's comments at the finish line make him a *** "barely need comment" on anything involving cycling.

You broke your own rule here. Irony much?

 

[Anonymous]

You may not think it appropriate to have a cobbled section in the TdF. That's ok with me. I just disagree with you.

I think JV's comments don't qualify him as a ***, but he was whining to be sure. I can criticise him for making those comments and, like you, I have a right to my opinion.

BTW, the crash on decent the day before plugged the road and was more than 30 guys. I guess we should not descend if it's raining. Get rid of those stages where there could be a cross-wind too. Far too random...

Its almost like we called each other and were like "So, like, what are you going to write about what that guy 2wheels posted, and you were all like, um...I don't know, maybe something with some logic and stuff, and I was all like, hey man, I was thinking THE EXACT SAME THING!...and you were all like, ya dude, seriously...ya' hear that? Thats my head, I'm totally wasted."

 

[Willy_Voet]

More cobbles, less whining.

Whoever *****es about cobbles gets to ride the next year on a fixed gear bike, over dirt roads, over twice the distance a la 1920.

Used to like Jens, now I think he needs to HTFU.

 

[Teddy Boom]

the people riding at the front [of a spring classic] are the specialists who are probably less likely to crash.

Then it isn't random.

 

[Broken Spoke]

I just watched stage 3 again because I started to doubt that I'd seen it right, based on some of the commentary here. Let's look at the facts...

There was never a big bunch shoulder to shoulder on the sectuers, it was strung out in a line.

There were two race-ending crashes on the stage - Le Lay (well before the first secteur was reached) and F.Schleck (secteur 4, taken down by Martin who fell directly in front of him).

Time gaps as a result of the conditions, crashes and punctures were within the realm of 'normal' racing.


So to sum up: Cobbles on a TdF stage ruin the overall result?
Coulda, woulda, didn't.

 

[Anonymous]

Its almost like we called each other and were like "So, like, what are you going to write about what that guy 2wheels posted, and you were all like, um...I don't know, maybe something with some logic and stuff, and I was all like, hey man, I was thinking THE EXACT SAME THING!...and you were all like, ya dude, seriously...ya' hear that? Thats my head, I'm totally wasted."

Well Stu I'll tell you, surfing's not a sport, it's a way of life, you know, a hobby. It's a way of looking at that wave and saying, "Hey bud, let's party!"

One of my all-time fav's.

Edit: Spicoli never whined about Mr. Hand. I think Jens could be a little more Spicoli-like.

 

[Anonymous]

Well Stu I'll tell you, surfing's not a sport, it's a way of life, you know, a hobby. It's a way of looking at that wave and saying, "Hey bud, let's party!"

One of my all-time fav's.

Edit: Spicoli never whined about Mr. Hand. I think Jens could be a little more Spicoli-like.

Best. Stoner. Ever.

 

[Cerberus]

Then it isn't random.

It's not that random who starts the crash (though of cause there's an element of luck), but it's highly random who has someone crash right in from of them taking them down, who has someone crash right behind them or who has someone crash far enough in front of them that they can avoid it. If everyone in the front is a specialist then the risk of crashes is smaller, but still present, but if just some of the people aren't specialists they increase the risk for everyone. We saw that in stage 3 where Tony Martin crashed taking Frank Schelck out of the race and delaying all other contender save ASchleck and Evans.