Voigt's Response after Stage 3

[Cerberus]

Oh no, not at all. I am living my dream. I want to be an attorney, and I just got a scholarship to study to do so because I worked my a$$ off while also providing for a family, riding my bike, working in my community in many capacities, and raising two children without complaining about the conditions under which I had to do so. I wouldn't trade my life for that of Schlecklet for anything. Schlecklet is a whiny pussy. I like people who just do their fu*king job and leave the drama to those with a lesser constitution.

Really? You could have fooled me with all the moaning about the pay and massages they get and how easy they have it.

 

[Anonymous]

And "Schlecklet" didn't work his a$$ off to get to where he is?
And yes, Schleck IS a better person than you are. Clean up the language dude, its debasing and low.

Oh he had to work, and listening to him whine about it makes me wish someone else who isn't a pussy had taken his place.

As for being "better" than me, hey, that is your opinion and obviously you are entitled. I don't concur, but then again, why would I?

As for my language, I don't have to accept your sense of propriety either. Schlecklet is a pussy and that is just how I see it. If you need to dress up your opinions in a less vulgar manner to feel good about yourself, that is your deal. Me, I don't need to.

 

[Anonymous]

Really? You could have fooled me with all the moaning about the pay and massages they get and how easy they have it.

Wait, me commenting on the fact that they have 90% of their lives taken care of by others, and me not complaining about the conditions I deal with to live are of equal relevance to your point? Um, okay, I guess when you have no substantive retort to the actual argument at hand (you know, why riding over stones is WAY out of bounds for a GT), you just start making incoherent arguments because you need to write something, right?

 

[TRDean]

No, its based on having really worked for a living. You know, the kind of job where you actually do all of the work yourself, and don't come home to a massage and prepared meal. I realize that riding a bike that far and that hard is difficult, but you will have to excuse me if I fail to consider it a job equal to just about any vocation in terms of actual stress and difficulty. Not to mention the fact that they get paid more in a day than 99% of the world makes all year. I see living in privilege has blinded you to the reality that most of the world scratches out a very tough existence devoid of a personal masseuse.

I see you really like to tell people on here how tough you are and how hard you work...does it make you feel better? Does this site act as some sort of therapy for you? Enough with the pussy talk...

I too went to grad school full time, raised 2 kids, carried a mortgage...doesn't make me any better than anyone else...so good for you...live your dream...just what the country needs...another self important lawyer.

 

[Anonymous]

I see you really like to tell people on here how tough you are and how hard you work...does it make you feel better? Does this site act as some sort of therapy for you? Enough with the pussy talk...

I too went to grad school full time, raised 2 kids, carried a mortgage...doesn't make me any better than anyone else...so good for you...live your dream...just what the country needs...another self important lawyer.

Um, try to follow the actual argument instead of making up your own commentary to serve your vapid point regarding inclusion of cobbles in a GT. My point is that I don't whine about the conditions under which I live. I just live the life I live and leave the whining to people who believe they are owed something. Now, good for your accomplishments. Did you whine about the conditions under which you achieved them? If not, then good for you! If so, then maybe you need to realize that being grateful for the fact that you are afforded such opportunities is in order. Schlecklet is RESPONSIBLE for his profession. He did the work to get there. It also means that he needs to accept the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and all that entails, and accept reality that sometimes, he will have to deal with adversity.

Again, all you are left with is insult of my chosen profession. Good thing that you didn't chose to be an attorney, you have to make well formed arguments, and you don't appear to be terribly adept at such things.

 

[Cerberus]

Wait, me commenting on the fact that they have 90% of their lives taken care of by others, and me not complaining about the conditions I deal with to live are of equal relevance to your point? Um, okay, I guess when you have no substantive retort to the actual argument at hand (you know, why riding over stones is WAY out of bounds for a GT), you just start making incoherent arguments because you need to write something, right?

I'm sorry your "commenting" on how easy pro cyclists have it (based on zero experience with it of cause) and your "not complaining" of how hard you have to work sounds so much like complaining that I mistook it. As for why I consider cobbles a bad choice for GTs I've already said why and I doubt you'll agree more the second time I say it.

 

[Christian]

and raising two children

I hope you speak differently to your children than in the forum

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry your "commenting" on how easy pro cyclists have it (based on zero experience with it of cause) and your "not complaining" of how hard you have to work sounds so much like complaining that I mistook it. As for why I consider cobbles a bad choice for GTs I've already said why and I doubt you'll agree more the second time I say it.

No, it is merely a recognition of reality. See, the REALITY is that Schlecklet lives a privileged life and needs to be grateful for his life, and in case you missed that part of my comments regarding my life, I wouldn't trade it for yours or his. Inherent in that is the fact that I am NOT complaining. If I were, my feelings would differ.

Here, let me sum up for you one last time: Schlecklet=pussy

 

[Anonymous]

I hope you speak differently to your children than in the forum

Oh good lord, of course I do. I would assume that at times your language is more colorful when not in the company of children also. Please tell me your points have not diminished to having this as your only substantive comment regarding the question at hand.

Do any of you have a coherent argument regarding the exclusion of cobbles in light of the reality of other aspects of stages that are as equally if not more dangerous? Anyone?

You know, men used to do these races in far FAR worse conditions. Unfortunately, it appears that society in many areas has forgotten what real adversity looks like. Oh well, the thing about having studied history is that I am fairly certain that will change at some point.

 

[sublimit]

TFF is spot on. Alpine stages, and in the Pyrenees are far more dangerous on the decsents.

whining about cobbles is pathetic.

 

[Cerberus]

No, it is merely a recognition of reality. See, the REALITY is that Schlecklet lives a privileged life and needs to be grateful for his life, and in case you missed that part of my comments regarding my life, I wouldn't trade it for yours or his. Inherent in that is the fact that I am NOT complaining. If I were, my feelings would differ.

Here, let me sum up for you one last time: Schlecklet=pussy

Wow, that's a convincing argument, declaring your opinion to be "REALITY". I guess that settles it.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, that's a convincing argument, declaring your opinion to be "REALITY". I guess that settles it.

Wait, so you believe that Schlecklet does not lead a pampered life compared to 99% of the people on earth? Please, delineate your points regarding such, and I will gladly show you how terribly out of touch you are with reality. And "he rides a bike for a living and that is really hard and you don't know because you are not a pro" doesn't count.

This guy thinks all of us are pussies:

 

[Mach Schnell]

Wait, so you believe that Schlecklet does not lead a pampered life compared to 99% of the people on earth? Please, delineate your points regarding such, and I will gladly show you how terribly out of touch you are with reality. And "he rides a bike for a living and that is really hard and you don't know because you are not a pro" doesn't count.

I hope you also lump yourself into that upper 1% (ok, maybe upper 5%) of the pampered on this earth. Take a spin through a bario in Lima and you'll know what I mean.
BTW, you'll make a great attorney, you never give up

 

[Anonymous]

I hope you also lump yourself into that upper 1% (ok, maybe upper 5%) of the pampered on this earth. Take a spin through a bario in Lima and you'll know what I mean.
BTW, you'll make a great attorney, you never give up

I do absolutely. I have more than two TV's so I am in the upper 1%. I have worked in favelas in Central America and am very grateful for the life I have been privileged to lead.

Yea, I have a bit of a bulldog mentality when it comes to argument. Its one of the main reasons I am going to law school

BTW, I do understand what all of you are saying, and still believe that Schlecklet needs to shut up and ride. But also note that he doesn't have to agree, nor do any of you.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Cobblestones, crashes, and potential winners of the Tour

Greg Lemond seems to think cobbles have a place in the Tour:

Anyway, the inclusion of cobbles was a controversial move in this year’s race, and led to a lot of complaints. What people forget is that up until the mid '80s, the Tour regularly featured a Paris-Roubaix-like stage. By the time I raced in the Tour I had already competed in three Paris-Roubaix races.

One difference between then and now is the fact that many of the current Tour riders have no experience on the cobbles. But when I started racing, the fascination with cycling wasn't just the Tour de France. It was the photos of the Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix which hit my imagination. That was a big part of the romance of the sport.

 

[Cerberus]

Wait, so you believe that Schlecklet does not lead a pampered life compared to 99% of the people on earth? Please, delineate your points regarding such, and I will gladly show you how terribly out of touch you are with reality. And "he rides a bike for a living and that is really hard and you don't know because you are not a pro" doesn't count.

This guy thinks all of us are pussies:

He's rich, of cause he's got lots of nice toys and people working for him, he got those things because of talent and hard work in a highly competitive profession. Some of the things such as massages might even be required for him to do his work properly. If you consider getting rich through your own talent and work to be "pampered" then I guess that's you privilege. If you succeed as a lawyer perhaps you to one day will be "pampered". I think it will require better argumentation than you've shown here, but perhaps you save the good stuff for when it matters.

 

[Mach Schnell]

I do absolutely. I have more than two TV's so I am in the upper 1%. I have worked in favelas in Central America and am very grateful for the life I have been privileged to lead.

Yea, I have a bit of a bulldog mentality when it comes to argument. Its one of the main reasons I am going to law school

BTW, I do understand what all of you are saying, and still believe that Schlecklet needs to shut up and ride. But also note that he doesn't have to agree, nor do any of you.

So which dog is more tenacious, the Bulldog, or the Pitbull?
Ok, maybe Schleck is just a wee bit of a pu$$y
I always enjoy a friendly argument.
Cheers
Paul

 

[Anonymous]

He's rich, of cause he's got lots of nice toys and people working for him, he got those things because of talent and hard work in a highly competitive profession. Some of the things such as massages might even be required for him to do his work properly. If you consider getting rich through your own talent and work to be "pampered" then I guess that's you privilege. If you succeed as a lawyer perhaps you to one day will be "pampered". I think it will require better argumentation than you've shown here, but perhaps you save the good stuff for when it matters.

I already believe my life is "pampered" compared to 99% of the world because it is. It isn't about his effort to achieve his place in the peloton, it is about his whiny attitude about the conditions under which he now rides.

As for an assessment of my style of argument, I would consider your comments had you provided anything resembling coherence in your posts here.

 

[Anonymous]

So which dog is more tenacious, the Bulldog, or the Pitbull?
Ok, maybe Schleck is just a wee bit of a pu$$y
I always enjoy a friendly argument.
Cheers
Paul

And maybe he has a right to comment regarding his profession...

Cheers!

 

[Mach Schnell]

Cobblestones, crashes, and potential winners of the Tour

Greg Lemond seems to think cobbles have a place in the Tour:

Lemonds quotes always smack of the "back in the day" metality, which I suppose they are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDaSvRO9xA

 

[Cerberus]

I already believe my life is "pampered" compared to 99% of the world because it is. It isn't about his effort to achieve his place in the peloton, it is about his whiny attitude about the conditions under which he now rides.

As for an assessment of my style of argument, I would consider your comments had you provided anything resembling coherence in your posts here.

Considering you seem to have spun on a dime concerning Schlecks right to comment on the conditions of his profession in your very next post, I don't think I'm the one who should be concerned with coherency.

ETA: NWM perhaps I just take arguments on the internet to seriously, a character defect I suppose.

 

[Anonymous]

Who knew this thread would be so entertaining??

I suppose it is human nature for someone like FSchleck to complain about a stage that does not play into his (or his brothers) strengths. It's been some time since the organizer announced the parcours. Every participant had time to prepare. Nobody held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to participate in the TdF. Furthermore, everyone had to ride the same course.

Just as Hushovd is not looking forward to the Tourmalet, FSchleck was not looking forward to the cobbles. C'est la vie. It's a bike race.

 

[pedaling squares]

Ok that guy is carrying way too much weight even for the cobbles.

I thought Jens's comments were typical from someone who is balls-tired right after a stage and is frustrated at losing a friend and team leader to injury. Who hasn't snapped out like that? It doesn't change my opinion of him. I disagree with him that this stage was inappropriate for a grand tour. As others have said, a mountain descent can take down a GT contender just as quickly (ask Beloki) and a TTT can put a big time loss into a GT contender who doesn't have strong teammates. Cobbles are an integral part of northern French racing and northern France is an integral part of the country that they are racing around. I know the stage was mostly in Belgium, bear with me. I didn't like seeing Andy Schleck complaining before the stage but I sure liked how he rode it.

I don't consider the riders privileged for getting massages as it is an important part of their recovery for the next stage. It's not a luxury to them, it's a necessity. Kind of like a trial lawyer having a team of assistants researching case law for him. He sure didn't have that kind of help in law school but he sure needs it to be successful at the top tier of his profession.

 

[Anonymous]

Considering you seem to have spun on a dime concerning Schlecks right to comment on the conditions of his profession in your very next post, I don't think I'm the one who should be concerned with coherency.

ETA: NWM perhaps I just take arguments on the internet to seriously, a character defect I suppose.

Yea, as you can see, I never do that...

As for changing my opinion, I still personally believe he is great big....well....I just think his complaints were a little misplaced.

 

[Cerberus]

Yea, as you can see, I never do that...

And a good thing to, Imagine if that kind of thing was common!

I don't know if you read any web comics but this one is very apropos.

As for changing my opinion, I still personally believe he is great big....well....I just think his complaints were a little misplaced.

Fair enough, my objection and I think the objection of others I think were really more to the phrasing than anything else. It's not like there's some objective standard for what is and is not appropriate for a GT.