Voigt's Response after Stage 3

[biokemguy]

Randomness is fun

I'm all for a bit of chance deciding a GT. That way the same guy doesn't win year after year. If AC would have crashed I bet most people would be excited for a wide open tour.

Look at the 2010 Giro. The first week had some of the same elements of luck involved that could have been avoided by riding on wider roads in Italy.
In the end it was one of the best GTs in recent years IMHO, and I'd say the strongest guy won.

 

[Broken Spoke]

When you look at the facts, stage 3 was no more of a game-changer than any other. Two withdrawals due to injuries from falls (FS and Le Lay) and time gaps for the GC contenders no more than you'd expect from a first week stage exposed to heavy crosswinds. If Frank hadn't crashed, resulting in splits behind, Andy might not have got the time on his rivals that he now has. Saxo have lost, but they've also gained. I really enjoy Jens' enthusiasm and passion and I understand why he vented his frustration, but I think the way he and Cancellara have been talking suggests that the team management is at best allowing them to get wound up about course conditions and at worst doing the winding up themselves. If you take a step back and consider what actually happened on stage 3, the outcome was not outside the normal parameters of professional road racing, but what a thrilling spectacle! Three days later and we're still talking about it.

BTW, I hope Stuey takes the boys aside and gives them a little perspective - "Ah, remember '07 fellas? That's a crash..."

 

[Thee_chisa]

When you look at the facts, stage 3 was no more of a game-changer than any other. Two withdrawals due to injuries from falls (FS and Le Lay) and time gaps for the GC contenders no more than you'd expect from a first week stage exposed to heavy crosswinds. If Frank hadn't crashed, resulting in splits behind, Andy might not have got the time on his rivals that he now has. Saxo have lost, but they've also gained. I really enjoy Jens' enthusiasm and passion and I understand why he vented his frustration, but I think the way he and Cancellara have been talking suggests that the team management is at best allowing them to get wound up about course conditions and at worst doing the winding up themselves. If you take a step back and consider what actually happened on stage 3, the outcome was not outside the normal parameters of professional road racing, but what a thrilling spectacle! Three days later and we're still talking about it.

BTW, I hope Stuey takes the boys aside and gives them a little perspective - "Ah, remember '07 fellas? That's a crash..."

yeah, stewie did a proper crash, he went about 20 ft up after he hit that barricade in london. and still continued. hard man.

 

[eireman]

Great stage, pity about the fallers, crashes, withdrawls and moaning after the woosh display on Stage 2 this is part of cycling.
If you wanna win a grand tour then you should be able to do it all.
Bring them into play everyear the flat stages are dull as hector.........

 

[fatandfast]

Great stage, pity about the fallers, crashes, withdrawls and moaning after the woosh display on Stage 2 this is part of cycling.
If you wanna win a grand tour then you should be able to do it all.
Bring them into play everyear the flat stages are dull as hector.........

Spot on. This blunder should be blamed on the directors that forced the negative racing. If the race would have been rapped out in a single file line all the post race whining would be about time lost not people crashing because everybody was fighting for the 6inch wide smooth dirt path next to the cobbles. That little dirt path that Ryder road was easy to get when it was single file and he was slammin' off the front.

 

[Anonymous]

I wish people would stop comparing the Tour 1910 with the Tour 2010. It's such an utterly inaccurate comparison in every single aspect and does not prove anything.

What the riders did 100 years ago was great, and what riders do today is great too. There were many things wrong and a lot of cheating 100 years ago, just as there is today.

The heroic stories from back in the day are nice for elementary school textbooks, but over a century later it is impossible to distinguish what really happenend and what was added to make a good story. The story of François Faber packing two raw beefsteaks for lunch on every stage is nice, but he surely didn't win the Tour in 1909 on raw beefsteaks alone, and no one knows exactly how far he rode on a female spectator's bike when his was broken, etc.

Plus you have to consider that at that time cobbles and dirt roads were pretty much all they had, so they really didn't have a choice. I'm sure if they had had better roads, they would have prefered to ride on those too.

Look, I understand that the soft little wussy from Luxembourg only wants pristine ribbons of tarmac because he has a hard time keeping his bike upright, but that takes nothing away from the reality that the roads they ride on, even the few cobbled sections, are really not that bad. Fact is that Frank could have fallen anywhere. Like I said, show me that the danger present in some of the mountain descents is less than including a few cobbled sections (nobody is saying they should follow the complete course of P-R as a stage) in the Tour, and you will have a point. Until then, all you have is an idol that needs to shut his mouth and ride his bike. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the complete dismissal of my points was completely unwarranted.

 

[Cerberus]

Look, I understand that the soft little wussy from Luxembourg only wants pristine ribbons of tarmac because he has a hard time keeping his bike upright, but that takes nothing away from the reality that the roads they ride on, even the few cobbled sections, are really not that bad. Fact is that Frank could have fallen anywhere.

That's right, good thing that we have the forum Hard Men to explain realities of life to those pro wussies. Frank schleck should just learn not to have other riders crash in front of him.

 

[rhubroma]

Maybe they shouldn't have descents because they might get wet. Maybe they should not ride on roads with traffic strips in the corners because they might get wet

What kind of rational is this?

The dangers of decents are always part of the Tour. The cobbles of Roubaix are not and created a needless danger that sent one contender to the hospital, as I had predicted. Though it could have been much worse. Would any of us have liked to see a Tour being contended over without, let's say, Armstrong, Contador, Basso, Andy Schleck, Evans together? Because the possibility was there. I'm simply arguing that such a possibility should not have been included in a Grand Tour course. This is what I meant by potentially falsifying the event. And even with just Schleck out some of the contenders lost precious time that wasn't based on their true physiological merits, but only how they survived a particular course. I'd much rather see, let's say, Evans gain time in the mountains, Andy Shleck gain in the time trial on Armstrong than because of a flat and bad roads. That's what the Tour is about, or should be. Perhaps this will make the race only more interesting in the mountains. This is a poor argument, however, when one considers the loss of Frank Shleck, which anulls all the benifits of such a course to me. I'm not a Shleck fan boy either, so it has nothing to do with that.

Had Frank Schleck crashed out on a decent (or on a wet traffic strip as you mockingly suggest), such would have been a "normal," even if, tragic outcome, though responsibility wise all on him. As it happened within the context and structure of a Grand Tour, I give no responsibility to the rider, but every bit to the race organizers. And the latter should never be responisble for sending a rider to hospital.

PS. The argument that the cobbles aren't "so dangerous" is not at all true and I would only suggest that one ride at them at 50K per hour in a group of 180 riders fighting for position to be the first one in. I believe this is what caused Frank to go down. Once in after about 50 meters the danger lessens. It's the preamble and arrival, however, that is in fact much more "tricky" than even a decent.

 

[eljimberino]

Well, I've read through the thread. Cobbles every year in my opinion. GC champions should be able to ride well on every surface in every situation. If they dont like it, GC contenders could ride tempo and let the big men fight it out at the front.

 

[TRDean]

Look, I understand that the soft little wussy from Luxembourg only wants pristine ribbons of tarmac because he has a hard time keeping his bike upright, but that takes nothing away from the reality that the roads they ride on, even the few cobbled sections, are really not that bad. Fact is that Frank could have fallen anywhere. Like I said, show me that the danger present in some of the mountain descents is less than including a few cobbled sections (nobody is saying they should follow the complete course of P-R as a stage) in the Tour, and you will have a point. Until then, all you have is an idol that needs to shut his mouth and ride his bike. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the complete dismissal of my points was completely unwarranted.

I hope that is sarcasm...Schleck a wussie? I don't really follow that...but what the hell...what makes a hard man for you? Maybe finishing the stage with a triple fracture of his collar bone?

 

[Christian]

yeah, stewie did a proper crash, he went about 20 ft up after he hit that barricade in london. and still continued. hard man.

Lol RTL TV interviewed O'Grady before yesterday's stage and he said: "Frankie, if you need any advise on collarbone recovery, I'm your man"

Look, I understand that the soft little wussy from Luxembourg only wants pristine ribbons of tarmac ...

I just had a discussion with some people on this subject in another thread, after someone said that, if they wanted to watch whining men on bikes, they'd go to the gay parade.

Just because men complain about dangerous roads or show feelings (cf. Cavendish) doesn't make them "soft little wussies", "***" (expression from the other thread), "little girls" (other expression used in the other thread) gays, f*ggots.

I feel genuinely sorry for the people who believe this, and I wish this chauvinistic, homophobic and utterly outdated point of view would stop.

... because he has a hard time keeping his bike upright ...

I think everyone would find it hard to keep their bike upright if someone else crashed just in front of them at a speed around 40 km/h

... but that takes nothing away from the reality that the roads they ride on, even the few cobbled sections, are really not that bad.

I don't know if you have ever ridden a bike over these roads, but let me put it this way: you wouldn't deliberately drive over them with your car.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but the complete dismissal of my points was completely unwarranted.

I didn't dismiss all your points, I just said the comparison of today's Tour with the Tour 100 years ago does not prove anything, for the reasons which I exposed.

 

[Anonymous]

I just had a discussion with some people on this subject in another thread, after someone said that, if they wanted to watch whining men on bikes, they'd go to the gay parade.

Just because men complain about dangerous roads or show feelings (cf. Cavendish) doesn't make them "soft little wussies", "***" (expression from the other thread), "little girls" (other expression used in the other thread) gays, f*ggots.

I feel genuinely sorry for the people who believe this, and I wish this chauvinistic, homophobic and utterly outdated point of view would stop.

Nice strawman. Just to be clear, I made absolutely NO reference in regards to his sexuality, and would never do that. I happen to know several gay men who are anything but a wuss like Schlecklet. That is you reading something into my words in an effort to gain some kind or rhetorical advantage based on propriety, and sorry, but it just makes you _____ for assuming you know me or my feelings on the subject of ANYTHING.

I think everyone would find it hard to keep their bike upright if someone else crashed just in front of them at a speed around 40 km/h

Which could only happen on cobbles

I don't know if you have ever ridden a bike over these roads, but let me put it this way: you wouldn't deliberately drive over them with your car.

Uhhh...okay, so because you would choose a different road for a car means that you cannot ride a bike on it...again, let me express myself with a sarcastic smiley

I didn't dismiss all your points, I just said the comparison of today's Tour with the Tour 100 years ago does not prove anything, for the reasons which I exposed.

To me, it does. To me, men who make hundreds of thousands of dollars riding a bike, who have mechanics who clean and deal with the workings if their bikes, men and women who rub their legs down every day, chefs who cook their meals, drives who get them everywhere in busses fit for a king, and directors with direct contact through little ear pieces, who also whine about having to ride over some stones for a few km screamy WUSSY.

I hope that is sarcasm...Schleck a wussie? I don't really follow that...but what the hell...what makes a hard man for you? Maybe finishing the stage with a triple fracture of his collar bone?

Uh, no, no its not. His whiny little rant before the stage was fit for a man who is more accustomed to getting all of the things in his life except riding a bike handled by someone else. Your results may vary.

 

[TRDean]

Uh, no, no its not. His whiny little rant before the stage was fit for a man who is more accustomed to getting all of the things in his life except riding a bike handled by someone else. I call a man like that a pussy. Your results may vary.

You are very interesting...calling someone a pussy...maybe he should get some man tatts like you have? Bow up in the southern tradition in NC? But I stand corrected...you mister TFF are the real man here...Oh and I'm glad you have gay friends...who really cares.

 

[Anonymous]

You are very interesting...calling someone a pussy...maybe he should get some man tatts like you have? Bow up in the southern tradition in NC? But I stand corrected...you mister TFF are the real man here...Oh and I'm glad you have gay friends...who really cares.

Look sweetie, if you believe that the life of a pro cyclist is "tough" I suggest you get a real job. As for your other personal insults, well, since you have no substantive point regarding the inclusion cobbles, I guess insulting my tattoos and my state are all you have...oh, and you like pussies who whine about having to ride over some stones. Dang. I mean if Schlecklet wants to quit whining and ride his fu*king bike, I am all for dropping calling him a pussy, but based on his interview, he is a pussy. A great big pussy. A great big pussy who needs to just be grateful that he gets to live the dream of riding his fu*king bike for a living.

 

[Cerberus]

Look sweetie, if you believe that the life of a pro cyclist is "tough" I suggest you get a real job. As for your other personal insults, well, since you have no substantive point regarding the inclusion cobbles, I guess insulting my tattoos and my state are all you have...oh, and you like pussies who whine about having to ride over some stones. Dang. I mean if Schlecklet wants to quit whining and ride his fu*king bike, I am all for dropping calling him a pussy, but based on his interview, he is a pussy. A great big pussy. A great big pussy who needs to just be grateful that he gets to live the dream of riding his fu*king bike for a living.

And your opinion of how easy it is to be a pro cyclist is of cause based on personal experience right?

 

[Mach Schnell]

I'm going to take the minority opinion and agree with him, Cobbles are to random for a GT.

Amen brother!!

 

[Anonymous]

No, its based on having really worked for a living. You know, the kind of job where you actually do all of the work yourself, and don't come home to a massage and prepared meal. I realize that riding a bike that far and that hard is difficult, but you will have to excuse me if I fail to consider it a job equal to just about any vocation in terms of actual stress and difficulty. Not to mention the fact that they get paid more in a day than 99% of the world makes all year. I see living in privilege has blinded you to the reality that most of the world scratches out a very tough existence devoid of a personal masseuse.

 

[Cerberus]

No, its based on having really worked for a living. You know, the kind of job where you actually do all of the work yourself, and don't come home to a massage and prepared meal. I realize that riding a bike that far and that hard is difficult, but you will have to excuse me if I fail to consider it a job equal to just about any vocation in terms of actual stress and difficulty. Not to mention the fact that they get paid more in a day than 99% of the world makes all year. I see living in privilege has blinded you to the reality that most of the world scratches out a very tough existence devoid of a personal masseuse.

Ah, so you're just jealous then.

 

[Mach Schnell]

Look sweetie, if you believe that the life of a pro cyclist is "tough" I suggest you get a real job. As for your other personal insults, well, since you have no substantive point regarding the inclusion cobbles, I guess insulting my tattoos and my state are all you have...oh, and you like pussies who whine about having to ride over some stones. Dang. I mean if Schlecklet wants to quit whining and ride his fu*king bike, I am all for dropping calling him a pussy, but based on his interview, he is a pussy. A great big pussy. A great big pussy who needs to just be grateful that he gets to live the dream of riding his fu*king bike for a living.

Sorry dude, but you are completely off base on this one.
"Schlecklet" as you call him, is a harder, tougher rider than you will ever be, or could comprehend to be.
What, they get paid for just "riding" their bikes? C'mon man, that just shows you have no idea whatsoever of the reality of a pro cyclist.
And quit with the "pussy"isms already. The english language is a rich and full one, use it as such.

 

[Anonymous]

Lets set the perspective here. Your point is that riding over some rocks is too dangerous and tough for a professional cyclist. Mine is that not only are pros blessed to be doing what they do, but also that a stage like stage 3 is nowhere near deserving of the whining commentary of Schlecklet and Jens because it is riding over some fu*king ROCKS mostly buried in the ground. I mean, I realize that Andy might take a hit to his manicure if he fell, and yea, maybe a broken bone, but that happens ALL OF THE TIME in races, and happens IN PLENTY OF INSTANCES WHERE THERE ARE NO COBBLES.

Again, any of you that can provide a coherent argument that riding over cobbles is inherently more dangerous that riding the descents of the mountain passages, feel free to make it because the holes in it are so numerous that one barely need comment on said objection to prove it is ridiculous. But please, feel free.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry dude, but you are completely of base on this one.
"Schlecklet" as you call him, is a harder, tougher rider than you will ever be, or could comprehend to be.
What, they get paid for just "riding" their bikes? C'mon man, that just shows you have no idea whatsoever of the reality of a pro cyclist.
And quit with the "pussy"isms already. The english language is a rich and full one, use it as such.

No, Schlecklet is a pussy for saying what he did in the interview before stage 3. Of course he can ride me into the ground. Fact is that we all have our strengths, and his is riding a bike. That means he is a better person than am I? Okay, I guess your shallow assessment of the value of individual contribution is one that is both laughable, and weighted towards pussy attitudes about one's job. On, and English is a proper noun.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah, so you're just jealous then.

Oh no, not at all. I am living my dream. I want to be an attorney, and I just got a scholarship to study to do so because I worked my a$$ off while also providing for a family, riding my bike, working in my community in many capacities, and raising two children without complaining about the conditions under which I had to do so. I wouldn't trade my life for that of Schlecklet for anything. Schlecklet is a whiny pussy. I like people who just do their fu*king job and leave the drama to those with a lesser constitution.

 

[Mach Schnell]

A picture is worth a thousand words as they say:

 

[Mach Schnell]

Oh no, not at all. I am living my dream. I want to be an attorney, and I just got a scholarship to study to do so because I worked my a$$ off while also providing for a family, riding my bike, working in my community in many capacities, and raising two children without complaining about the conditions under which I had to do so. I wouldn't trade my life for that of Schlecklet for anything. Schlecklet is a whiny pussy. I like people who just do their fu*king job and leave the drama to those with a lesser constitution.

And "Schlecklet" didn't work his a$$ off to get to where he is?
And yes, Schleck IS a better person than you are. Clean up the language dude, its debasing and low.

 

[Anonymous]

A picture is worth a thousand words as they say:

Oh, looks impossible. You'll have to excuse me, but I have ridden the trails around Moab, and that looks like a walk in the park in all honesty. Also note the wetness...um, why not take a picture of the cobbles and the conditions they actually had on stage 3?

Fact is that they didn't include passages like Arenberg (nor would I suggest they do so in a GT), and even if they did, whining about it is just...well, whining, and that makes you a what?....wait for it.....................pussy.