Vroomen on doping, media and nationalism

[Mrs John Murphy]

Thoughts on this? I think it is an excellent and insightful piece.

Many interesting points - Basso, the Schleck case, Fuentes, Contador, nationalism among fans and the media.

The nationalism thing certainly rings true, and the media is imo soft when it comes to criticising riders, DS's and the UCI but even softer when it is a rider from the home nation.

But interviews like this are a start.

Interview

 

[taiwan]

I think it's cool that he's free to comment having distanced himself from the team and his contriburions are welcome. I agree with his sentiments toward nationalism in cycling.

 

[Euskaltel!]

Nationalism pervades modern society...

 

[rhubroma]

I have long said that sport is propaganda. No nation likes to see its so called heros for what they really are, fallible human beings like anybody else.

If we take away the so called exceptional super-human qualities from these athletes, the false imagery, then we destroy the fairy tale that has such purchase in pumping up patriotic sentiments.

And we all knew who he was referring to when talking about how a certain nation portrayed its cycling “legend” as if he were the second coming of Christ. This makes the current media reports sublimely ironic.

 

[Walkman]

Thoughts on this?

Spot on, I'd say.

My favourit part:

"You can’t have somebody as a suspect of doping and then have the national federation make a judgement on it. It just doesn’t work.”

The current system will never work, just look at Spain and how they handled OP and Contis case. Perhaps countries like Sweden and Denmark can pull it off but in reality this system should never have been created.

 

[JA.Tri]

Spot on, I'd say.

My favourit part:

"You can’t have somebody as a suspect of doping and then have the national federation make a judgement on it. It just doesn’t work.”

The current system will never work, just look at Spain and how they handled OP and Contis case. Perhaps countries like Sweden and Denmark can pull it off but in reality this system should never have been created.

Cycling must have an independent international tribunal (and similarly a testing authority). This tribunal (sitting below CAS) would be first point of call responsible for assessing positives etc and imposing appropriate sanctions. Appeals...cyclist, federation, UCI, WADA to CAS.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

When you have the Prime Minister of a country 'tweeting' his support for a rider that shows that it is not just the media which is nationalistic.

The problem is that some countries are more backwards than others in dealing with the problem at every level. Hence the inconsistency - Basso, Ullrich, Scarponi lose two years of their careers (their career in Ullrich's case), while the likes of Dertie, Valverde, Schleck are allowed to roam free.

The top names are of course the Golden Geese - they are the ones who bring in the titles, the ones whose names sell papers, merchandise etc etc it takes a lot for a national fed to throw the book at the chosen one.

This doesn't just go for cycling - look at the way in which the British looked after Christine Ohuruogu because she was basically the only British athlete likely to win a gold track and field medal at the Olympics.

Lots of fans and media tend to believe that only foreigners dope - not brave British or honest Aussies.

Once again though, the big problem is that the likes of Vroomen, Schenk etc are being constantly run out of town, while the likes of Riis, Hog, Vaughters and McQuaid are welcomed and protected.

JA.Tri - I agree entirely the problem is that there is no way the Spanish, US, etc would agree to it. Too many vested interests in not reforming doping discipline mean it will never happen. But it is the most obvious and necessary step in cleaning up the sport.

One other point I found interesting is about media representation - ie Basso (who only thought about doping etc etc) vs DDL, vs Ricco, vs Dertie. The media tends to be much more sympathetic to accused dopers than to the whistleblowers. Likewise, 'exciting' riders (excepting Vino) get an easier time than 'boring' riders. So we end up with the bizarre situation of Dave Harmon cheering on Piti Valv to beat Vino.

 

[ElChingon]

He needs to read the Clinic for more non-nationalistic views of dopers. I'd welcome him to come post and of course read, I think he'd fit right in.

 

[Hmmmmm]

I enjoyed reading his opinion and would have to say I agree.

 

[porkchop_sideburns]

"When asked if he and Cervelo were able to profit on the back of possible doping related successes, Vroomen explained that markets and return rates from wins are never that cut and dry.

“As to benefits from races, I think that’s genuinely overestimated. The best data I have was in 2008 when we won the Tour with Carlos Sastre. Our worst performing model was the model he rode to win the Tour de France. We saw zero boosts from his win. Overall the brand recognition grows and there’s no doubt to that but the individual wins do very little.”"

- If Vroomen is all about honesty, then he ought to be honest about Cervelo sales. To say they got zero boost from Sastre is ridiculous. Sure, they may not have sold many of the top-of-the-line $10K tour bikes, but they sold many, many, less expensive models. Shortly after Sastre's victory they started showing up at my weekly rides and in roof-racks at Starbucks. In the U.S., Cervelo has enjoyed the surge in popularity much like Litespeed and Felt have in years past.

 

[blackcat]

Vroomen and Vrijmen?
doppelgangers from the Jekkyl & Hyde mould

 

[issoisso]

That for me was really the end of it. That was so bad and it assumed cycling fans were so stupid that I just didn’t get that at all. That for me was the end.”

I think Mr. Vroomen is overestimating the intelligence of many cycling fans. As can be easily seen on many forums, there are many fans who really are incredibly stupid to the point where they honestly believe Schleck paid Fuentes for training advice and not for a doping program.

 

[taiwan]

The sport could exist without nationalism, there'd just be less money around.

 

[Oldman]

Absolutely right-f*cking on regarding riders and Associations. Very refreshing from an industry insider.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

To add to our list of nationalists welcoming dopers with open arms.

 

[Granville57]

If Vroomen is all about honesty, then he ought to be honest about Cervelo sales. To say they got zero boost from Sastre is ridiculous.

It is equally ridiculous to suggest that that is what Vroomen said.

Our worst performing model was the model he rode to win the Tour de France. We saw zero boosts from his win.

He's clearly referring only to that specific model (the R3-SL).

Overall the brand recognition grows and there’s no doubt to that but the individual wins do very little.

---------------------

Great article by Vroomen overall though. Refreshingly honest and clear-headed. Most of his blogs are. The thinly-veiled reference to LA was classic as well.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Thoughts on this? I think it is an excellent and insightful piece.

Many interesting points - Basso, the Schleck case, Fuentes, Contador, nationalism among fans and the media.

The nationalism thing certainly rings true, and the media is imo soft when it comes to criticising riders, DS's and the UCI but even softer when it is a rider from the home nation.

But interviews like this are a start.

Interview

Excellent stuff by Vroomen.

I have heard many names touted to head up the UCI (not that Pats going anywhere but..) I have always been impressed with Vroomens view. He is articulate on everything from womens cycling, race radios to doping.
He is obviously someone who is passionate about the sport.

Really interesting to read his views on some of the teams they sponsored high profile names, like Basso but in particular Schleck.

To add to our list of nationalists welcoming dopers with open arms.

Maybe its because I am hungry - but that map of the Vuelta looks like a juicy steak.

 

[sniper]

Excellent stuff by Vroomen.
...
Maybe its because I am hungry - but that map of the Vuelta looks like a juicy steak.

+1
man, I love the clinic

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

It's hard to disagree with Vroomen's basic argument about national federations being inappropriate bodies to deal with alleged doping infractions.

 

[ElChingon]

As for sales, one blip or even a local increase in sales doesn't mean the company is rolling in profits. Remember its a global thing not one bike shop that has to sell more bikes. I have seen more Cervelo's but nothing in comparison with other bike manufactures when their rider wins on their frame (I will avoid the obvious brand names for fear of derailment).

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Vroomen, like Schenk, is too intelligent and sensible to be allowed near the reigns of power.

As with FIFA, its at the national level (where cronyism and corruption are most rife) and also where true power really resides. McQuaid like Blatter is a figurehead who likes to think he is in charge but who in reality can't take a **** without the approval of the national feds.

The last thing the national feds want is someone who will stop their little gravy train.

Even if there was a campaign to get rid of McQuaid he would just cash in his chips with his mates that he's been buttering up in Asia, Africa, North and South America etc. I have think his globalisation plan is less about the sport and more about maintaining a powerbase for himself.

 

[El Oso]

One thing that caught my attention was:

People in the US are extremely anti doping with anyone that’s caught when they’re Italian, Spanish or German, but at the same time they don’t want to know about Levi Leipheimer’s positive test from the 90s.

I didn't think Levi's positive was common knowledge outside The Clinic.

I also found his comments on the '06 Giro interesting.

To play devil's advocate on the nationalism, Italy could be somewhat going against this trend by banning dopers from the national championships. If carried out properly it could get away from the trend.

 

[JRTinMA]

One thing that caught my attention was:


I didn't think Levi's positive was common knowledge outside The Clinic.

I also found his comments on the '06 Giro interesting.

To play devil's advocate on the nationalism, Italy could be somewhat going against this trend by banning dopers from the national championships. If carried out properly it could get away from the trend.

Its right at the beginning of Levi's wiki page, thats pretty much the go to for the average american so its pretty common knowledge. His comments were refreshing for sure and unprecedented for a major frame seller with the exception of Lemond of course. Good read.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Yes, but it was a massive effort and a lot of detective work to get it put into the Poisoned Dwarfs wiki page and he fought tooth and nail to keep it hidden.

 

[Benotti69]

i found this strange

“ I thought the real turning point with our entire pro cycling sponsorship was the press release sent out when the Schleck thing broke. That for me was really the end of it. That was so bad and it assumed cycling fans were so stupid that I just didn’t get that at all. That for me was the end.”

If that was the end why was he still involved in the sport, first running Cervelo Test Team and then with Garmin Cervelo?

He makes some good points that we dont hear from a DS but he aint a DS is he and he has moved on so it hardly takes big balls to say what he has said. If he said it at the time of Frank Shcleck caught giving Fuentes a few quid, then he would get a round of applause.