DFA123 said:
Netserk said:
DFA123 said:
Netserk said:
Hugh amount of vertical gain and very high altitude makes up for the fact that the last 13km is only 8.8% (hardly false-flat). It takes almost twice as long to climb as Angliru. As I said it's hard rank them, and I should probably have Finestre first, but other than that I think the order is right. Fauniera (Pradleves) would also be difficult to place between the others.
My point with the list was simply to say, that while some people think Angliru is the hardest climb there is, it's hardly an unanimous position and it certainly isn't much different from the other beasts.
I don't really understand what you are basing this on. How many pros have said Stelvio or Finestre are harder than Angliru or Zoncolan? It must be a tiny percentage, probably all Italians from the area.
I've ridden all five that you listed and Finestre and Stelvio just aren't
that hard. I know it's slightly different for pros than amateurs with their extra power; but they're basically just long grinds - not comparable to the other three. They don't mess with your rhythm, they don't have sections that force you to go anaerobic and you still get some drafting benefit on them.
Mortirolo, Angliru and Zoncolan are a different level entirely - and it's pretty clear why it seems like 95% or so of pro cyclists name one of those three as the hardest climb they've ever ridden.
Of course it's more unpleasant to ride an irregular and super steep climb than a more normal one, but that doesn't make it more difficult. Or is Montelupone a harder climb than Envalira? While it's possible to have an easier and more pleasant ride on the latter, that would never be the case if the riders had to go all out. Long grinds are 'just' long grinds, when you take it easy. In a race situation where the riders will push themselves to the limit, Stelvio from Prato would definitely be a more difficult ride than a climb like Mortirolo.
I think the race situation is what makes these steep, irregular climbs so much harder. A climb like Stelvio or Finestre is ridden most quickly in a race situation by staying just under threshold for an hour and twenty minutes, or however long it takes. Basically going at the hardest steady pace that you can sustain. Riding around threshold for long periods is what GC hopefuls dedicate loads of hours to in training, it's basically what they specialize in. The difficulty in climbs like Stelvio and Finestre comes from the cumulative effect of climbing 4000-5000m in a day, not the one climb itself.
Climbs like Mortirolo or Angliru could also be ridden at or just below threshold for 95% of it by most of the top climbers, but this would be a really slow way to climb.
The gradients are so steep in parts that riders have to go anaerobic just to go 10-12km/h and maintain whatever inertia they can. Basically doing anaerobic intervals for 40 minutes to an hour, with recovery at or just below threshold is what is needed to climb Mortirolo or Angliru as quickly as possible. And that is really, really hard to do. Far harder than staying just below threshold for 90 minutes with just the occasional attack to respond to.
Montelupone is obviously something completely different physiologically. It is basically an all out effort at Vo2 max. Some climbers are great at that, and some struggle more - but it's impossible to compare with Envalira or any of the other climbs mentioned.
Sorry, I have to disagree, at least the Zoncolan can be ridden at a steady, really high pace to grind people down, just look at 2010 Basso, that was pure diesel climber power and on that stage Sastre, who got dropped right at the start of the steep middle part, was able to catch and outclimb many riders by riding at his own pace.
Another example would be Angliru 2013 when Nibali just burned himself by attacking way to often while Papi Horner looked more regular and Valverde was also able to catch him by riding at his own pace.
Those super steep climbs force amateurs to do anaerobic efforts, but the pros have waaay more power and with a power meter they can go at a steady pace on those kind of climbs, just look at the way someone like Froome climbs the Vuelta muritos.