Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2022, stage 10: Elche - Alicante, 30.9k (ITT)

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So Remco would beat a rampant WvA (Vingegaard sat up)? Not sure about that. Today was super impressive by Remco but Roglic is likely a little below Par and even in peak level not a TT match for WvA in this year's TdF form.

Well "Stage 20 ITT Vingegaard" would have beaten Van Aert in top shape had Vingo not sat up to gift WvA the win.

This is false.
Vingegaard did ease off but only after nearly crashing. At that time his lead had already turned into a small deficit.

 

[King Boonen]

Just want to say to all my comrades in arms, the haters, the lovers, the trolls, the Jedis and the Siths… there’s no way that somewhere out there people can find a better sport!! Not even football can match this amazing sport!!! I LoVe cycling, today we saw amazing stuff that I would never bet my life on! Love it!!

You need to watch some baseball.

 

[Cookster15]

This is false.
Vingegaard did ease off but only after nearly crashing. At that time his lead had already turned into a small deficit.

The comment I replied to was Remco today would have beaten TdF stage 20 Vingo. This is hyperbole and I explained the logic why.

 

[Big Doopie]

I fail to see how the Giro was any less fun than this Vuelta so far? In the Giro we were kept guessing until stage 20. This Vuelta is effectively over and we are only stage 10. Landa is universally accepted as one of the best climbers in the sport and Carapaz was the 2021 TdF podium finisher so you should not downgrade Hindley. Who are these lesser riders?

Very second if not third tier. With no stand out rides.

We just disagree.

 

[tobydawq]

The 2012 tour route I would currently take RE over TP and JV.

I also think Pidcock and Jumbo Visma would have a hard time there.

 

[Big Doopie]

Lol. That would be his own demise! IMHO.
He needs to be as boring as possible from now on. Something like Indurain style.

Or vingo style. Just mark your (direct) competitor, just follow, and drop them only when they are worn out and you are sure of dropping them.

 

[Extinction]

The comment I replied to was that "this Remco would beat a stage 20 ITT Vingegaard for sure".

Well "Stage 20 ITT Vingegaard" would have beaten Van Aert in top shape had Vingo not sat up to gift WvA the win. Plus generally the TdF is higher level than the Vuelta (or Giro). Like I mentioned no way is Roglic at his best here - just better than the rest.

You must consider Remco's speed today, however, which was nothing short of remarkable at almost 56 kph. Now surely even at the Tour on this course (I realize it's geographically impossible, but for argument's sakè) WvA, Vingegaard, a TopGanna aint going much faster, if at all. 56 kph seems about the limit of performance capacity.

 

[Cookster15]

Very second if not third tier. With no stand out rides.

We just disagree.

Yes we just disagree. But to your points, Stage 20 by Hindley was a stand out ride. And Richard Carapaz and Mikel Landa are not a second or third tier riders.

 

[witeken]

"Soler overtook me on the way," said Van Wilder. "He yelled at me: do you have that time (to drive so slowly). To which I replied that you could drive 39 kilometers per hour on average and still finish in time. And then we are kind of in each other's slipstream start racing."

Van Wilder spaart zich volledig voor Evenepoel: "Nog nooit zo trage tijdrit gereden" | sporza

Bij Quick Step-Alpha Vinyl stellen ze alles in het werk om Remco Evenepoel aan de eindzege te helpen. Ploegmaat Ilan Van Wilder, toch een begenadigd tijdrijder, werd voorlaatste om krachten te sparen. "We moesten een tweede rustdag nemen van de ploeg", vertelt hij.

sporza.be

 

[Cookster15]

You must consider Remco's speed today, however, which was nothing short of remarkable at almost 56 kph. Now surely even at the Tour on this course (I realize it's geographically impossible, but for argument's sakè) WvA, Vingegaard, a TopGanna aint going much faster, if at all. 56 kph seems about the limit of performance capacity.

Fair point, but yes a flat course. The TdF was a rolling course. WvA in the TdF was at his best, yet Vingo was line ball with him. Remco beating that? Maybe but not "for sure".

You are right 56km/h speaks for itself, it is quite mind boggling. But TdF level WvA was more mind blowing IMO.

 

[Big Doopie]

Yes we just disagree. But to your points, Stage 20 by Hindley was a stand out ride. And Richard Carapaz and Mikel Landa are not a second or third tier riders.

Yes we disagree. And particularly on all of the above.

Hindley’s ride was 5 minutes. Not why I watch for three weeks.

Landa is definitely third tier.

Carapaz may creep into second tier.

None of the above would ever be considered real contenders in any other era when there was more ITT.

 

[groogster]

You need to watch some baseball.

Nahh, way too boring

 

[groogster]

Very second if not third tier. With no stand out rides.

We just disagree.

3rd class tiers, nahh way to much of underrating in my book. IMO clearly 2nd tier riders

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You need to watch some baseball.

Are we still stuck on three true outcomes BS and pitchers whining that they aren't allowed to use spidertack anymore, or are we finally getting some balls in play?

 

[groogster]

You must consider Remco's speed today, however, which was nothing short of remarkable at almost 56 kph. Now surely even at the Tour on this course (I realize it's geographically impossible, but for argument's sakè) WvA, Vingegaard, a TopGanna aint going much faster, if at all. 56 kph seems about the limit of performance capacity.

I still think that on this 30k flat itt a top Ganna would win over a top Evenepoel,a close call but i would put my money on a Top Ganna

 

[groogster]

because the giro was so much fun... oy...

1. u just need two great riders in any GT to make it thrilling.
2. when u try to artificially keep lesser riders in the running you get the nightmare of this year's giro
3. the history of GT racing is largely that of dominant riders and rides. if you do not enjoy extraordinary rides and exploits by the best rider in the race or of that era, then this is likely not the sport for you.

EDIT: i see your other post that seems to be sending out the opposite message, so take the above with a grain of salt, it's just my point of view. ;-)

Glad you did in the end catch the sarcasm, well half of it
Absolutely loving this Vuelta so far, but on the other side i kind of wish that we can have some kinf of a comeback of Roglic, that's what keeps the fun

 

[Extinction]

Fair point, but yes a flat course. The TdF was a rolling course. WvA in the TdF was at his best, yet Vingo was line ball with him. Remco beating that? Maybe but not "for sure".

You are right 56km/h speaks for itself, it is quite mind boggling. But TdF level WvA was more mind blowing IMO.

Well, as it's already been said, this is the best Remco we've seen thus far and in lesser condition he's been up there in the TTs with Wout and Filippo. With today's performance now he is up to their best level, as quasi 56 kph speaks of that in no uncertain terms. Moreover, for a little guy, to go that fast on a pan flat course is all the more noteworthy, as he doesn't have the long legs to get the pedals turning over to the torque of inertia (like Ganna and van Aert). Thus on a more rolling course his raw power would have arguably carried him through even better.

 

[Extinction]

I still think that on this 30k flat itt a top Ganna would win over a top Evenepoel,a close call but i would put my money on a Top Ganna

A top TopGanna, perhaps, but with Remco's performance today, as they say, it would be mighty damn close.

 

[groogster]

A top TopGanna, perhaps, but with Remco's performance today, as they say, it would be mighty damn close.

yes it would! I'm simply astonished by this Belgium kid, If he doesn't bonk i believe that he can go to TDF and have a shot against Vini and Poga!
Just hoping that he ease off for the next stages until Pena Blanca so we could still dream of a contest!

 

[Extinction]

yes it would! I'm simply astonished by this Belgium kid, If he doesn't bonk i believe that he can go to TDF and have a shot against Vini and Poga!
Just hoping that he ease off for the next stages until Pena Blanca so we could still dream of a contest!

Well, as I've been thinking all along, he still has to proove he can go the distance, but thus far he has shown he's head and shoulders above the rest in practically everything but field sprints. He would have to flat at a delicate moment, crash (knock on wood or touch metal, depending on where you are from) or totally blow up to lose this Vuelta. While you can't really control the first two, the third I think largely depends on how he manages his condition. Yet so far he shows no signs of relenting, which goes to show you how much the Lombardia fall held up his development.

 

[Escarabajo]

Or vingo style. Just mark your (direct) competitor, just follow, and drop them only when they are worn out and you are sure of dropping them.

I disagree with you with that assessment. I don't think that Remco is at that position just yet. He might have more than one rival. He can't just let Mas or Carlos or Simon go that easily. IMHO.

 

[ontheroad]

This is false.
Vingegaard did ease off but only after nearly crashing. At that time his lead had already turned into a small deficit.

I recall following the splits and Vingegaard had a 9 second lead over WVA around 2/3rds of the way into the TT. I’m not sure at what point the near crash occurred but he did leak a lot of time relative to Van Aert in the final part where the course went uphill. I’d say Vingegaard would have beaten Van Aert or at least been on a par if he’d needed to.

Not sure where Evenepoel fits into the equation but I suspect he beats both by a small margin.

 

[Sciatic]

Are we still stuck on three true outcomes BS and pitchers whining that they aren't allowed to use spidertack anymore, or are we finally getting some balls in play?

Oh I think it's even worse this year. It used to be that a player with a batting average under .220 - .210 range would get sent down to the minor leagues, unless they were absolutely the most superb defensive players at their positions. This year, virtually every team has starting players hitting less than that and some lineups have several players hitting below .200, which was unheard of in the past.

 

[saunaking]

He can win in 2 days and collapse the following day. So no. Let's hope for a good race but let's not jinx the race!! Lol.

Yep! Nothing more MAL than him showing incredible form in a TT only to drop early on the next mountain day

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Well, as it's already been said, this is the best Remco we've seen thus far and in lesser condition he's been up there in the TTs with Wout and Filippo. With today's performance now he is up to their best level, as quasi 56 kph speaks of that in no uncertain terms. Moreover, for a little guy, to go that fast on a pan flat course is all the more noteworthy, as he doesn't have the long legs to get the pedals turning over to the torque of inertia (like Ganna and van Aert). Thus on a more rolling course his raw power would have arguably carried him through even better.

Anyone have sufficient encyclopedic knowledge about ITTs to cite some comps - average kmph on similar length and profile ITTs?