Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2025, Stage 11: Bilbao/Bilbo – Bilbao/Bilbo (157.4k)

[RedheadDane]

The riders on Rusvelo didn't invade Ukraine personally, but the team still had indirect ties to the Russian state and subsequently had its licence taken away, leaving them jobless.

And I think that was stupid too.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Enough. Locking the thread because I need to go out. Will unlock it later.

Absolutely no commentary on what is happening in Israel and Gaza will be tolerated. Several people have already incurred bans. More may follow.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

And now unlocking. That is certainly not a course of action I would want to repeat. But I do not believe that the situation would have died down in a way that respects the rules of the forum quickly, and I had already delayed my wife's chance to visit her mother's grave on the "monthaversary" of her death, which is important to her to do, by over an hour, and the cemetery gates are locked earlier this month than they were last. I believe a couple of hours closure is better than allowing the circular arguments to continue and further breaches of the rules to occur.

So, let's discuss whether the organisers handled the situation well, implications of Pidcock's show of strength and Almeida's inability to follow him, and similar cycling related issues.

Because that is what we come to a cycling forum to do.

 

[Netserk]

And now unlocking. That is certainly not a course of action I would want to repeat. But I do not believe that the situation would have died down in a way that respects the rules of the forum quickly, and I had already delayed my wife's chance to visit her mother's grave on the "monthaversary" of her death, which is important to her to do, by over an hour, and the cemetery gates are locked earlier this month than they were last. I believe a couple of hours closure is better than allowing the circular arguments to continue and further breaches of the rules to occur.

So, let's discuss whether the organisers handled the situation well, implications of Pidcock's show of strength and Almeida's inability to follow him, and similar cycling related issues.

Because that is what we come to a cycling forum to do.

To inform that, I would normally assume it's not an issue to post a video from Twitter of what happened, but after today I will ask in advance if such a video from when the peloton crossed the finish the first (and only) time is an issue?

 

[Charlyghoul]

* I don’t know how bad the situation was at the finish line, whether the stage being altered was unwarranted or not
* someone earlier mentioned they could have timed the stage finish properly if it was on the top of the last climb? If so, they should have done that, if it needed to be changed that is.
* Pidcock is the new Coppi

 

[Peyroteo94]

To inform that, I would normally assume it's not an issue to post a video from Twitter of what happened, but after today I will ask in advance if such a video from when the peloton crossed the finish the first (and only) time is an issue?

They did the right thing. There was a user saying it was a pacific protest but I see some violence there.

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[Armchair Cyclist]

To inform that, I would normally assume it's not an issue to post a video from Twitter of what happened, but after today I will ask in advance if such a video from when the peloton crossed the finish the first (and only) time is an issue?

Not a problem: there are issues about race organisation that merit discussion. And that can happen entirely independent of any reference to anything beyond the city limits of Bilbao (or maybe Aigle).

Leaving aside my mod hat (and haven't had much opportunity to do that since about 4pm other than my cemetery trip) I don't think there was anyway that the organisers could have felt confident sending the peloton back down that finishing straight. My guess is that it would not have resulted in anything very grievous, but it would have been ugly, it would have produced far more "attention grabbing" footage than a stage dwindling out on a descent did, and the implications in the (I believe, rather unlikely) case of serious injuries arising to any party would have been damaging.

 

[Netserk]

Not a problem: there are issues about race organisation that merit discussion. And that can happen entirely independent of any reference to anything beyond the city limits of Bilbao (or maybe Aigle).

Leaving aside my mod hat (and haven't had much opportunity to do that since about 4pm other than my cemetery trip) I don't think there was anyway that the organisers could have felt confident sending the peloton back down that finishing straight. My guess is that it would not have resulted in anything very grievous, but it would have been ugly, it would have produced far more "attention grabbing" footage than a stage dwindling out on a descent did, and the implications in the (I believe, rather unlikely) case of serious injuries arising to any party would have been damaging.

Good to hear.
I entirely agree.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Having seen the footage of the first passage of the finish line on social media, it was definitely worse than it looked on the broadcast. So to retract two things I argued before the thread was locked: the neutralisation was, in fact, necessary and the protest, while not particularly violent overall, was also not entirely non-violent as far as I can tell now.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Organiser has no real means here to do anything, they for example can't expel IPT or to stop the protesters. They can cancel the event if it starts to get out of hand and that is that.

It's UCI and their lack of engagement that is at fault here, they set the rules in regards to IPT participation. So if UCI is silent or decided to support IPT participation in that case organiser can only do two things. Cary through the event or in case of not being able to provide sufficient safety to cancel the event altogether. If UCI forbids IPT participation through duration of the war in Palestine, then again organiser has no other means but to follow it.

So lets see on what UCI does.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@rehy90

Still they are here and they won't stop and organiser can't make them stop and things are escalating. Hence if nothing changes then organiser will need to acknowledge they can't provide sufficient safety and to cancel the event.

P.S. As for the justifications, that can be discussed on some other forums indeed.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What i can guarantee you it won't happen is somebody making it all go away for you to continue to enjoy cycling. ATM that is out of the question and it can't happen. Decisions will hence need to be made and they won't suit all. Ignoring it, then such events will just get cancelled altogether.

So lets see on what happens as something will.

 

[Boehmand]

I think it's a mistake for IPT to stay in the race.

From a sporting perspective I understand it, they would be dropping out of 10 WT race days, but I suspect their decision to stay in will just increase the protests in days to come.

 

[Gratemans]

Anyways how did Gall go from being dropped like a stone on Vivero to being 5th best on Pike? Is he now better on steep short climbs?

I was on my way back from work so I could only check PCS on my phone (I walk to work, no worries!) and it was a true tombola. Every other minute I refreshed, the front group seemed to be entirely different

 

[Gratemans]

And now unlocking. That is certainly not a course of action I would want to repeat. But I do not believe that the situation would have died down in a way that respects the rules of the forum quickly, and I had already delayed my wife's chance to visit her mother's grave on the "monthaversary" of her death, which is important to her to do, by over an hour, and the cemetery gates are locked earlier this month than they were last. I believe a couple of hours closure is better than allowing the circular arguments to continue and further breaches of the rules to occur.

So, let's discuss whether the organisers handled the situation well, implications of Pidcock's show of strength and Almeida's inability to follow him, and similar cycling related issues.

Because that is what we come to a cycling forum to do.

As far as I'm concerned, in the future, don't you even hesitate to temporarily close down such a volatile thread again when you've got something clearly more important to do.
This is just a an internet forum where people write down their opinions. And although we all think we're pretty important, we're definitely not.
In this particular case, I'd say it even was a welcome pause.

 

[topcat]

And now unlocking. That is certainly not a course of action I would want to repeat. But I do not believe that the situation would have died down in a way that respects the rules of the forum quickly, and I had already delayed my wife's chance to visit her mother's grave on the "monthaversary" of her death, which is important to her to do, by over an hour, and the cemetery gates are locked earlier this month than they were last. I believe a couple of hours closure is better than allowing the circular arguments to continue and further breaches of the rules to occur.

So, let's discuss whether the organisers handled the situation well, implications of Pidcock's show of strength and Almeida's inability to follow him, and similar cycling related issues.

Because that is what we come to a cycling forum to do.

Monthaversary = Month's Mind in Ireland.
I do not think Pidcock will podium.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Monthaversary = Month's Mind in Ireland.
I do not think Pidcock will podium.

As you would imagine, I am very much aware of the Month's Mind. This is in fact the 15th "monthaversary", but it is a tradition that is important to my wife, and therefore to me.

But more importantly for this forum,thank you for being the first person to mention an actual cyclist in about 10 pages.

 

[Escarabajo]

They did the right thing. There was a user saying it was a pacific protest but I see some violence there.

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Not pacific at all. I really don't like that. Pacific is when you don't affect the flow of things like someone said in here.

 

[ontheroad]

Some things are much more important than a bike race so it should come as no surprise that people feel the need to protest. If the organisers didn’t forsee these issues then they must be tone deaf.

 

[laarsland]

Bilbao is an amazing city, Pintxos and Txocoli needs to be on the UN Heritage list if not already.

Not wanting to get political, but city who has(/kinda still is) experiencing oppression supporting similar experiences isn't that shocking to be honest.

 

[laarsland]

And I just have to say that Bilbao is great, but still just Temu-Bergen, Norway.

 

[Red Rick]

Some things are much more important than a bike race so it should come as no surprise that people feel the need to protest.

Yes. But why at the bike race? There's a hundred other places you can do it.

 

[ontheroad]

Yes. But why at the bike race? There's a hundred other places you can do it.

Like where? Big government don’t listen unless it affects them reputationally and financially, that’s their only currency. Maximum TV exposure in a big sporting event.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And I think that was stupid too.

I think you're just going to have to accept that most people have a lower bar for what constitutes culpability and complicity than you do. I recall that back when the sensitive topic of the day was Gianni Moscon racially abusing his fellow professionals, the level of benefit of the doubt you were willing to apply was that it would have taken him having "constantly been complaining how dark-skinned people shouldn't be in sport" (your words) before you would be willing to label him guilty of racism. I'd say that the vast majority would draw the line a lot lower than that - but it does tally up with your stance here, which appears to imply that no protest is valid unless the targets of the protest are actively participating in the action being protested.

Likewise here, I think it is fairly clear that the protesters here do not perceive, say, Matthew Riccitello or Jan Hirt to be actively participating in the action that they are protesting against, but they are visibly appearing in public wearing the badge and slogan of the entity that they are protesting against. To put it in less political terms, if you wore, say, a Glasgow Celtic shirt into a bar in a predominantly Rangers-supporting part of the city, people in that bar will give you grief. They won't need to believe that you actually play for or be employed by Celtic to do so - by repping those colours publicly you become an emblem of that opposition, and a proxy for their dislike for that team.

 

[Danskebjerge]

They did the right thing. There was a user saying it was a pacific protest but I see some violence there.

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I admire that woman in the red shirt who came running to assist in holding the barrier.