WADA - "Doping should not be a criminal offense"

[Irondan]

I found this article to be interesting. I'm curious to see what opinion of the clinic is on this.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/wada-doping-should-not-be-a-criminal-offense_388306#O6uMZyru5VPztzQf.99

 

[Catwhoorg]

I respectfully disagree with WADA.

Its simple fraud as ebandit has pointed out.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

WADA is correct on this one. How do you go about imposing criminal law upon sovereign nations? Treaties aren't entered into lightly... Acceptance would be close to zero for most nations. The current framework which establishes an arbitration process via contract is much more easily enforceable.

Besides, all the activities around doping are already criminalized in most nations. The procurement and distribution of controlled substances. Tax evasion. Etc, etc, etc.

John Swanson

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

I respectfully disagree with WADA.

Its simple fraud as ebandit has pointed out.

Fraud is already criminalized and charges can be sought in the correct jurisdiction. Just ask Lance Armstrong...

John Swanson

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: wada

WADA is correct on this one. How do you go about imposing criminal law upon sovereign nations?

.........then why are wada trying to influence........suggesting that doping should not

be a criminal offence......................

Mark L

It already *is* a criminal offense. Purchasing, possessing, selling controlled substances (and performing proscribed medical procedures - transfusions) to commit fraud and evade taxes are all criminalized in every jurisdiction I can think of. If the relevant authorities aren't pursuing charges, that's on them.

What exactly do you want WADA to do here? They are rightly focused on what they can accomplish through the administration of sport. I.e., making sure doped athletes lose their jobs and pay a financial penalty and that those actions can be enforced through contracts.

John Swanson

 

[Catwhoorg]

I don't want WADA to do anything.

I do want the relevant legal authorities to pursue the matters that already fall under their remit with greater (ie some) urgency.

 

[blackcat]

shouldnt be a specific statute.

tho, like others have pointed out, it may cross over with fraud... and that is the country's own jurisdiction

i would be sad if jimmy casper or remi di gregorio or whover in france got pinged or Moreni get time, even Millar, it is absurd that a sportsman does what a sportsman does, or a sportswoman does and Geneviève Jeanson gets gaol time n alliterationz...

come on, anyone with their eyes open, and i will parrot Armstrong, anyone with their eyes open know they are doping, like HelmutRoole says, but we watch them for entertainment just like we watch UFC or Queensberry Rulz. We are enablers too, but we wont be the accessory to the "crime".

 

[Benotti69]

I found this article to be interesting. I'm curious to see what opinion of the clinic is on this.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/wada-doping-should-not-be-a-criminal-offense_388306#O6uMZyru5VPztzQf.99

it confirms what i suspect of WADA, they are there for PR and control of athletes rather than a truly independent anti-doping and therein an anit-cheating anti-fraud body.

Why should people who commit fraud not be subjected to criminal charges? It does not mean an athlete goes to jail but they can receive a suspended sentence and criminal record for their cheating.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

I found this article to be interesting. I'm curious to see what opinion of the clinic is on this.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/wada-doping-should-not-be-a-criminal-offense_388306#O6uMZyru5VPztzQf.99

it confirms what i suspect of WADA, they are there for PR and control of athletes rather than a truly independent anti-doping and therein an anit-cheating anti-fraud body.

Why should people who commit fraud not be subjected to criminal charges? It does not mean an athlete goes to jail but they can receive a suspended sentence and criminal record for their cheating.

A French rider on an Italian registered team gets busted for doping at a race in China.... Under which country's jurisdiction does this rider get prosecuted under these "WADA laws"? Note that it would be up to each country to specify the penalty and appeals process.

John Swanson

 

[Irondan]

I found this article to be interesting. I'm curious to see what opinion of the clinic is on this.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/wada-doping-should-not-be-a-criminal-offense_388306#O6uMZyru5VPztzQf.99

it confirms what i suspect of WADA, they are there for PR and control of athletes rather than a truly independent anti-doping and therein an anit-cheating anti-fraud body.

Why should people who commit fraud not be subjected to criminal charges? It does not mean an athlete goes to jail but they can receive a suspended sentence and criminal record for their cheating.

A French rider on an Italian registered team gets busted for doping at a race in China.... Under which country's jurisdiction does this rider get prosecuted under these "WADA laws"? Note that it would be up to each country to specify the penalty and appeals process.

John Swanson

The threat of going to prison in any country should be a great deterrent to race clean, but the threat of going to prison in China as a foreign national?

That alone should clean up the entire peloton....

 

[Benotti69]

I found this article to be interesting. I'm curious to see what opinion of the clinic is on this.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/wada-doping-should-not-be-a-criminal-offense_388306#O6uMZyru5VPztzQf.99

it confirms what i suspect of WADA, they are there for PR and control of athletes rather than a truly independent anti-doping and therein an anit-cheating anti-fraud body.

Why should people who commit fraud not be subjected to criminal charges? It does not mean an athlete goes to jail but they can receive a suspended sentence and criminal record for their cheating.

A French rider on an Italian registered team gets busted for doping at a race in China.... Under which country's jurisdiction does this rider get prosecuted under these "WADA laws"? Note that it would be up to each country to specify the penalty and appeals process.

John Swanson

At present it is not feasible to prosecute a rider.

It will not be made doable either.

I guess, not having an MBA in Bus Studies, that what happens in white collar crime cases would be applicable. At least in western countries.

 

[JayKosta]

The actual 'doping' part is already addressed in various ways by all nations, and it doesn't matter whether the 'doper' is an athlete or not.

An important consideration about WADA doping rules is that many typical and widely used over-the-counter and prescription 'legal drugs' are PROHIBITED by WADA. For example some cold medicines, and de-congestants. Just because WADA prohibits it, doesn't mean it is illegal.

WADA shouldn't waste its time and money trying to influence civil or criminal LAWs.
WADA has enough of a challenge getting good rules and procedures established to identify and detect what it thinks are PEDs

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

I don't want WADA to do anything.

I do want the relevant legal authorities to pursue the matters that already fall under their remit with greater (ie some) urgency.

I think that WADA could take leadership in pushing NADOs and organizers to pursue that second option. I agree that the doping part of doping doesn't belong in legal codes, but the fraud, smuggling, and conspiracy pieces could be sought under existing laws.

What we don't see often enough is wronged parties using the legal system to right wrongs, like repaying prize money. I think WADA/NADOs could lead the way in prosecuting dopers who have been sanctioned already, to recoup lost money.

We also don't see a translation of courtroom based evidence into sanctions from the sport. For example, the Padova investigation is mostly resulting in tax fraud, with no impact on the riders' eligibility, the doctors' licensing, or managers' ownership. And even one step from that, is when evidence is not allowed out from the courtroom at all, like the Blood Bag ID's from Puerto.

That is the big issue between sport and law, which is not something WADA is structured to solve. NADOs are more suited, but will not do so unilaterally without momentum from WADA. And with statements like this, WADA is misunderstanding the question, and giving an answer that only builds a division between sport and law.

 

[Catwhoorg]

A good example of NADO and legal co-operation, would be the recent bust of the steroid labs iin the US and the UK.

Also UK border force tipping off UKAD about certain products coming in from China.

That level of co-operation for sure should be encouraged.

 

[doperhopper]

it confirms what i suspect of WADA, they are there for PR and control of athletes rather than a truly independent anti-doping and therein an anit-cheating anti-fraud body.

Why should people who commit fraud not be subjected to criminal charges? It does not mean an athlete goes to jail but they can receive a suspended sentence and criminal record for their cheating.

A French rider on an Italian registered team gets busted for doping at a race in China.... Under which country's jurisdiction does this rider get prosecuted under these "WADA laws"? Note that it would be up to each country to specify the penalty and appeals process.

John Swanson[/quote]

Well, if mexican member of Medellin cartel gets busted in the US there's no problem. Even if he escapes, the US can demand extradition. Or if Axelander Wine buys a race in Belgium, being on a spanish team ... is there a problem? Actually, even your native country may prosecute you for the crimes you've comitted abroad, specific cases, o course (e.g. bribery).

 

[MarkvW]

Don't waste public funds on enforcing sporting rules. Much better things to spend that money on--like bike lanes!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Victimless crimes should not result in prison sentencing.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Victimless crimes should not result in prison sentencing.

that is... I presume, intentionally ambiguous. Allows the reader to interpret thru their own lens, a moral relativism for the perceiver...


i think it is sport, i think it is entertainment...

and there will always be an ambiguity when there are criminal statutes that inersect with the DAA and pharmaceutical administrations and quasi government bodies.

my position, I have made known, but I recognise the DearWiggo position for what I interpret in his/her intimation.

personally, i would not step into a snakes den,,, (is this a moral judgement on cyclists?)
am i a hypocrite or an enabler for having fun at the expense of the sport?

 

[IndianCyclist]

If criminalized then the sentencing should be as per criminal law. Additional sentences w.r.t WADA code should not be present.
My opinion is that one sentencing for a offense either criminal or WADA but not both.

 

[zigmeister]

Was this in response to this article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/britain-looking-into-criminalising-doping/

Typical, more laws and don't utilize and enforce the ones that exist. Also, as Swanson points out, good luck with getting the various countries and logistics all sorted out.

I can ensure you, China won't prosecute anybody for doping, as we know many of their Olympians have doped and likely will in the future. When the government is part of the issue as well, how will this work out?

Kind of like gun laws...let's make more gun laws to stop violent crimes! But don't enforce the huge amount of laws in effect. And of course, criminals and unethical types don't care about "laws". A study by the FBI years ago showed that gun laws/or laws of any type for that matter, don't mean anything to them. So they will always/can/will break the "law". Fear of imprisonment? Ok, lets have a debtors prison also then while we are at it, or people who eat saturated fat foods, drinkers/smokers, poor lifestyle choices prison/laws as well?

 

[gooner]

British government considering it.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/34653817

 

[blackcat]

British government considering it.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/34653817

not surprising.

this is the nation of "EPO cheats out!" exclamation mark

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Victimless crimes should not result in prison sentencing.

I was a victim of riders like Lance. The emotional damages have been astronomical.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

Victimless crimes should not result in prison sentencing.

I was a victim of riders like Lance. The emotional damages have been astronomical.

Well...astronomical damages require astronomical proof.

 

[D-Queued]

Re: Re:

Victimless crimes should not result in prison sentencing.

I was a victim of riders like Lance. The emotional damages have been astronomical.

Well...astronomical damages require astronomical proof.

Or, they are as obvious as the sun in the sky

But, to the topic, it has always been a puzzle as to why Sporting Fraud laws are required in places like Italy. And, why concerted and comprehensive doping programs designed to defraud sporting outcomes and prize money - let alone other corruption such as match fixing - have somehow been immune to prosecution without such laws being in place.

Shouldn't fraud be fraud? Why is a special law required at all?

Yet, even with such laws now in place in Italy, those laws only cover sporting fraud in events organized by CONI.

Here is a relevant insight:

Match-fixing in sport
A mapping of criminal law provisions in EU 27
MARCH 2012

...In the last 6 months, the Council of Europe adopted the Recommendation on promotion of the integrity of sport against manipulation of results, the EU Council the Conclusions on combating match-fixing, and the European Parliament the Resolution on the European Dimension of Sport. These texts draw attention to the problem of match-fixing and call on national governments to ensure their legislation sanctions match-fixing in accordance with the seriousness of the conduct (Council of Europe Recommendation) and to make illegal activities affecting the integrity of sport a criminal offence (European Parliament Resolution). At the national level, France amended the Criminal Code to include betting related match-fixing as a modality of the offence of corruption; Sweden introduced a bill referring to betting corruption; and Greece presented a proposal to modify the Sports Law to ensure that betting related match-fixing is punished with 10 years of imprisonment. Similar proposals are under consideration in Australia and Russia. ...

Reminds me of a recent HBO episode where late-night television personality John Oliver ridiculed the Canadian election when he "...questioned why a country that already has murder laws and a 911 system would need a law banning honour-killing and a snitch-line for barbaric cultural practices...."

NOTE: I am not making a political statement, nor proposing political debate, even though the great white north apparently rejected the need for such new laws. Just seeing a parallel on the obvious.

WADA's position is thus understandable if at least part of their rationale also effectively is based on the premise that special laws should not be needed for things that should already be against the law.

Dave.