Wada not (yet) publishing positives for HGH

[MustIski]

This could be old news but according to finnish media Wada has several positive test results for HGH. They are not going to publish them until they have full scientifical backbone for their new hgh limits. Wada doesn´t want to go to CAS and loose there anymore so this time they want to everything properly considering hgh. HGH -tests are made also in the Sotshi olympics, but positive results are released only after they are sure they are going to win at CAS.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Many on here seem to find CAS the holy grail for sports administration, the point where corruption can no longer exist but looking at some of the decisions they have made on tennis, I find that idea ridiculous.

 

[sniper]

Many on here seem to find CAS the holy grail for sports administration, the point where corruption can no longer exist but looking at some of the decisions they have made on tennis, I find that idea ridiculous.

true.

some of the most seasoned posters here called me a conspiracist when i suggested CAS judges might be corruptable.

 

[neineinei]

Many on here seem to find CAS the holy grail for sports administration, the point where corruption can no longer exist but looking at some of the decisions they have made on tennis, I find that idea ridiculous.

CAS ruled in favour of Andrus Veerpalu (Estonian cross country skier) in March last year because they meant FIS ''failed to meet the applicable standard of proof''. CAS said the threshold limits used by FIS weren't reliable, but also that "there are many factors in this case which tend to indicate that the Athlete did in fact himself administer exogenous hGH" I don't think any hGH case has been brought forward since then, so what MustIski and the Finnish press are saying seems plausible to me.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Many on here seem to find CAS the holy grail for sports administration, the point where corruption can no longer exist but looking at some of the decisions they have made on tennis, I find that idea ridiculous.

If anyone bothered to read the published parts of the Contador decision they'd reach the conclusion that CAS does not issue evidence-based decisions. And it's incredible how their sanction timings work out!!!

It is pretty equivalent to most international sports administration.

These tests will only go positive if it was a NADO/WADA taking the samples, or the sport federation need to send a warning to their most valuable athletes.

IMHO, most sport federation anti-doping is run like Jamaica's program. They make sure the athlete doesn't test positive outside the country.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Revised HGH test Guidelines get published.

Very technical document.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Revised HGH test Guidelines get published.

Very technical document.

For me and you, yes. For the determined doper? No.

-Lab needs ISO certification to run the test. Maybe someone with some experience on the testing side can tell us if that is a routine certification or something more complicated.
-Another blood test, meaning after certification this won't be run very often.
-No clue as to what the cost of running this particular test is either.

Still, maybe one or two minor athletes will fail the IQ test a year or more from now.

Just a note on CAS judges. I've since learned that CAS panels are populated by people who represent athletes in front of other CAS panels and likely have worked for sports federations. It appears to be a very small group of people who know each other with hopelessly tangled conflicts of interest.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Just a note on CAS judges. I've since learned that CAS panels are populated by people who represent athletes in front of other CAS panels and likely have worked for sports federations. It appears to be a very small group of people who know each other with hopelessly tangled conflicts of interest.

I'd be interested in where you read this, but it's my understanding also, from the Aussie contingent that are / were on the panel.

The whole conflict of interest thing raises its ugly head over and over.

 

[King Boonen]

If anyone bothered to read the published parts of the Contador decision they'd reach the conclusion that CAS does not issue evidence-based decisions. And it's incredible how their sanction timings work out!!!

Yes, it's always worth remembering that CAS is a court and it operates as such. It goes on the evidence presented, it will not do the leg work to investigate it.

The Contador decision was, frankly, ridiculous.

 

[King Boonen]

For me and you, yes. For the determined doper? No.

-Lab needs ISO certification to run the test. Maybe someone with some experience on the testing side can tell us if that is a routine certification or something more complicated.

It's the standard ISO accreditation for laboratories and any tests they are currently doing will, most likely be accredited to the same standard. Basically it's routine, do a training course, prove you can do it reproducibly and accurately with a satisfactory limit of detection (which is dependent on the kit unless the operator is really bad) and you're good to go. Basically it's routine for anti-doping labs.

-Another blood test, meaning after certification this won't be run very often.

Very possible. I'm afraid I can't comment on that as I don't know. I'd assume it has to be requested.

-No clue as to what the cost of running this particular test is either.

Kits are from a company that appears to only sell these kits:

http://www.cmz-assay.com/

This test is based on Andreas Bergmanns' work (paper abstract and full text links - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19168559) who is based in Berlin. It's obviously a spin-out company set up to sell the kits, the disclosures can be read at the end of the paper, but as such you'd have to email them to request prices and they are probably variable depending on your order size.

Still, maybe one or two minor athletes will fail the IQ test a year or more from now.

They could use this to test stored samples if they want to, so some athletes may be sweating about it.

But yes, 24-36h maximum after use. It's an OOC test really and it's only going to catch someone if the anti-doping authority is lucky with the timing of the sample.

Just a note on CAS judges. I've since learned that CAS panels are populated by people who represent athletes in front of other CAS panels and likely have worked for sports federations. It appears to be a very small group of people who know each other with hopelessly tangled conflicts of interest.

Very interesting, although not unexpected. Thanks.

 

[blackcat]

they got the UK rugby player that then went and killed himself about 30 months back.

 

[King Boonen]

they got the UK rugby player that then went and killed himself about 30 months back.

Terry Newton?

 

[blackcat]

This could be old news but according to finnish media Wada has several positive test results for HGH. They are not going to publish them until they have full scientifical backbone for their new hgh limits. Wada doesn´t want to go to CAS and loose there anymore so this time they want to everything properly considering hgh. HGH -tests are made also in the Sotshi olympics, but positive results are released only after they are sure they are going to win at CAS.

like at the 2000 olympics, they had two options for the epo test, they chose the one where they needed to get it inside the three day window.

unless an olympic athlete was doing epo after they had checked into the olympic village, they were not gonna get popped. Say the last epo injection was just before a european plane trip to australia a week before, they were not gonna get popped.

the entire system is so incoherent, one cannot blame the athletes

 

[Avoriaz]

the entire system is so incoherent, one cannot blame the athletes

Sure you can. No one is force feeding them this sh*t

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

But yes, 24-36h maximum after use. It's an OOC test really and it's only going to catch someone if the anti-doping authority is lucky with the timing of the sample.

I really don't understand this argument. HGH is used daily or several times a week over a period of weeks or months. A 24 hour window is all you need.

 

[King Boonen]

I really don't understand this argument. HGH is used daily or several times a week over a period of weeks or months. A 24 hour window is all you need.

Evidence?

And considering we have recently been shown by riders that OOC testing is happening over two months apart it seems very relevant, particularly as no one in their right mind would use hGH in competition.

 

[The Hitch]

Sure you can. No one is force feeding them this sh*t

Economically if you gave up on studies and other career paths as a youth to make it in sport, and when you reach the pro ranks you see everyone is doping and you need to do so yourself to get the job you risked your whole life on, I would say there is some pressure there.

 

[blackcat]

Terry Newton?

yep

RIP. not that i follow uk rugby, from the uk, nor knew him.

 

[King Boonen]

yep

RIP. not that i follow uk rugby, from the uk, nor knew him.

I follow it, he was a league player. Immensely talented. I also know some of his ex-teammates and coaches from his junior days. He wasn't a well fella from what I've read/heard. Seems to be a recurring theme these days, very sad what happened.

 

[Avoriaz]

Economically if you gave up on studies and other career paths as a youth to make it in sport, and when you reach the pro ranks you see everyone is doping and you need to do so yourself to get the job you risked your whole life on, I would say there is some pressure there.

Of course there is pressure. Pressure to win, pressure to perform, pressure to entertain, pressure to dope. There is also the choice. It is an incredibly difficult choice but professional athletes aren't Bambi. It is no excuse, just as losing my job, seeing interest rates rise, wife leaving, roof leaking is no excuse for me to go out and rob someone

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Of course there is pressure. Pressure to win, pressure to perform, pressure to entertain, pressure to dope. There is also the choice. It is an incredibly difficult choice but professional athletes aren't Bambi. It is no excuse, just as losing my job, seeing interest rates rise, wife leaving, roof leaking is no excuse for me to go out and rob someone

Except you didn't train to rob people, and dedicate your life to this point in time to rob people.

I think a good analogy is taxi drivers, who either drive slower than a wet week or in a manner most find disturbing or annoying, usually all in the name of getting work or milking it for all it's worth.

Sure they don't have to, but there's a system, and the people who game the system invariably come out ahead.