• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Was Tan watching a different race?

Mar 15, 2009
48
0
0
www.frameforum.org
Check this out:

No one can say Thor Hushovd (Cervelo TestTeam) didn't earn his second maillot vert, fair and square.

In a ding-**** battle with Cavendish, the Norwegian knew his arch-rival was faster and had to call upon all his strength and tactical nous to beat his opponent, who proved unstoppable in a straight line. While Contador was the best all-rounder, one could easily argue Hushovd was the most complete rider. Significantly, he won the sixth stage to Barcelona on a small hilltop finish; he finished sixth on a hilly, rain-soaked day to Colmar won by teammate Heinrich Haussler; and then to secure his lead, Hushovd went on a rampage through the Sallanches countryside on Stage 17, Cavendish's words following the fourteenth stage to Besançon - that he would later eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner - stirred the Thunder God to banish his mighty hammer and end the race with a 10-point margin.

Now, in the TDF I was watching;

Cavendish won six stages, Hushovd one.

Cavendish was penalised 13 points; Hushovd won the points jersey by 10.

When Hushovd "went on a rampage through the Sallanches countryside on Stage 17" he all but ended his team leaders' chances of making the top 5. His job that day was to make sure Sastre made it to the last climb in the first group, but instead Carlos (defending Tour champ, remember?) was having to fight his way out of the bunch without the support of the teams' dedicated 'steamroller'.

Where was the steamroller? Up the road in a lone suicide break playing the 'I'll show them who's fastest' game.

Not so much 'God of Thunder'; more 'God of Blunder'.

When all the media sensationalism dies down surrounding the Cav vs. Thor 'story', perhaps some might see his actions that day for what they were: a childish act by a so-called professional who should know better.

Fortunately for him, Sastre is too much of a gentleman to go around whingeing to the team management, or Hushovd and his tainted green jersey would be looking for a new team.

And as for Tan's stuff about Pellizotti's 'Racism' on the podium (discussed elsewhere)... well, it just beggars belief.

Seems to me, journalistic standards are no longer required when writing for Cyclingnews. Shame.
 
frameforum said:
Check this out:



Now, in the TDF I was watching;

Cavendish won six stages, Hushovd one.

Cavendish was penalised 13 points; Hushovd won the points jersey by 10.

When Hushovd "went on a rampage through the Sallanches countryside on Stage 17" he all but ended his team leaders' chances of making the top 5. His job that day was to make sure Sastre made it to the last climb in the first group, but instead Carlos (defending Tour champ, remember?) was having to fight his way out of the bunch without the support of the teams' dedicated 'steamroller'.

Where was the steamroller? Up the road in a lone suicide break playing the 'I'll show them who's fastest' game.

Not so much 'God of Thunder'; more 'God of Blunder'.

When all the media sensationalism dies down surrounding the Cav vs. Thor 'story', perhaps some might see his actions that day for what they were: a childish act by a so-called professional who should know better.

Fortunately for him, Sastre is too much of a gentleman to go around whingeing to the team management, or Hushovd and his tainted green jersey would be looking for a new team.

And as for Tan's stuff about Pellizotti's 'Racism' on the podium (discussed elsewhere)... well, it just beggars belief.

Seems to me, journalistic standards are no longer required when writing for Cyclingnews. Shame.

in the TDF I was watching:

No other team could match the Columbia lead-up train for the sprints. For Thor to finish second to Cav in 5 stages (or was it four?) without any serious help from Cervelo is a great feat. There were lots of other sprinters that could not match this. Cav was the fastest - and had the best team, Thor was the strongest.

Sastre was already way off the pace on stage 17. There were also 7 other guys on the Cervelo-team that could help him on that stage, remember?
 
Jun 16, 2009
860
0
0
Visit site
Well even though Thor is good the point is that he won the Jersey by 10 points and CAV was penalised 13. So even with Thors solo for points it still boils down to the fact that the race was decided by officials & not the riders.
It is not fair to either rider.
 
Apr 8, 2009
272
0
0
Visit site
frameforum said:
Check this out:



Now, in the TDF I was watching;

Cavendish won six stages, Hushovd one.

Cavendish was penalised 13 points; Hushovd won the points jersey by 10.

When Hushovd "went on a rampage through the Sallanches countryside on Stage 17" he all but ended his team leaders' chances of making the top 5. His job that day was to make sure Sastre made it to the last climb in the first group, but instead Carlos (defending Tour champ, remember?) was having to fight his way out of the bunch without the support of the teams' dedicated 'steamroller'.

Where was the steamroller? Up the road in a lone suicide break playing the 'I'll show them who's fastest' game.

Not so much 'God of Thunder'; more 'God of Blunder'.

When all the media sensationalism dies down surrounding the Cav vs. Thor 'story', perhaps some might see his actions that day for what they were: a childish act by a so-called professional who should know better.

Fortunately for him, Sastre is too much of a gentleman to go around whingeing to the team management, or Hushovd and his tainted green jersey would be looking for a new team.

And as for Tan's stuff about Pellizotti's 'Racism' on the podium (discussed elsewhere)... well, it just beggars belief.

Seems to me, journalistic standards are no longer required when writing for Cyclingnews. Shame.
One wonders if you were watching the same tour. Ended Sastre's chances? C'mon, they were already gone, because he was not competitive.

The green jersey is not the stage sprinters jersey, it is based upon consistency in a number of sprints along the race. Just as the polka dot is not won by the climber with the most mountain top stage wins.

Hushovd clearly could not outsprint Cav, so he chose to pick places where he could pick up points. This is also how he won his previous green jersey.

Sastre's chances were not diminished one bit by Thors lone break. If anything it meant his team had no responsibility to do any work at all, so I am sure he managed to find shelter somewhere in the peleton. It certainly wasn't a suicide break because he achieved exactly what he wanted, no more no less. When he had the points he sat up. I think you forget that these moves are decided at the team meal table the night before.

And why pick on Hushovd. Where is your rant against Haussler, who also spent all day off the front away from Sastre.

Cav has moved on from his 'stained jersey' comment, so maybe it is time for you to as well. The placing relegation was made by the race jury, who clealry thought there was an infringement, otherwise they would not have made the decision. We can all agree or disagree as to whether there actually was.

But I do at least agree with you re Tans blast.
 
frameforum said:
When Hushovd "went on a rampage through the Sallanches countryside on Stage 17" he all but ended his team leaders' chances of making the top 5. His job that day was to make sure Sastre made it to the last climb in the first group, but instead Carlos (defending Tour champ, remember?) was having to fight his way out of the bunch without the support of the teams' dedicated 'steamroller'.

Where was the steamroller? Up the road in a lone suicide break playing the 'I'll show them who's fastest' game.

Not so much 'God of Thunder'; more 'God of Blunder'.

Oh, come on. Sastre did not have it this Tour. Was Cervelo supposed to give up the opportunity to all but assure winning the green jersey so that Sastre could maybe finish in the top five of the GC? Cervelo made the right decision.
 
Apr 8, 2009
272
0
0
Visit site
runninboy said:
Well even though Thor is good the point is that he won the Jersey by 10 points and CAV was penalised 13. So even with Thors solo for points it still boils down to the fact that the race was decided by officials & not the riders.
It is not fair to either rider.
It's not as simple as that. If cav had been given the extra 13 points, then Hushovd would have decided his game plan based upon that, and would probably have contested intermediate sprints. He s a smart rider and only did what he felt he had to do to retain the jersey.

Even so, it was still a risk that he would not get place on the last stage.
 
Jun 22, 2009
4,991
1
0
Visit site
BroDeal said:
Oh, come on. Sastre did not have it this Tour. Was Cervelo supposed to give up the opportunity to all but assure winning the green jersey so that Sastre could maybe finish in the top five of the GC? Cervelo made the right decision.

Wow, I agree. Maybe there is some hope.....
 
davidg said:
It's not as simple as that. If cav had been given the extra 13 points, then Hushovd would have decided his game plan based upon that, and would probably have contested intermediate sprints. He s a smart rider and only did what he felt he had to do to retain the jersey.

Even so, it was still a risk that he would not get place on the last stage.

Good point. He was also quoted in Norwegian media yesterday that we was very nervous before the Champs-finish and decided to play it safe in the final turns in order to keep the jersey.
 
Jun 16, 2009
860
0
0
Visit site
davidg said:
It's not as simple as that. If cav had been given the extra 13 points, then Hushovd would have decided his game plan based upon that, and would probably have contested intermediate sprints. He s a smart rider and only did what he felt he had to do to retain the jersey.

Even so, it was still a risk that he would not get place on the last stage.

I understand what you are saying but my point is the officials robbed both riders of deciding the race. Of course it would have made different tactics neccessary for thor to win.
I never said CAV would win, i am saying the decision took the battle away from the two people who had earned the right to decide.
 
"The officials decided the race"... Or maybe Columbia completely messed things up in Besançon. It's their only major blunder on this tour (with letting Thor getting points in that early moutain stage). Would Cavendish have done this sprint normally, he would probably have won the green jersey.

The officials decided to enforce the rules, it's their role. It was discussed aplenty at the moment.
 
Jun 16, 2009
860
0
0
Visit site
ThisFrenchGuy said:
"The officials decided the race"... Or maybe Columbia completely messed things up in Besançon. It's their only major blunder on this tour (with letting Thor getting points in that early moutain stage). Would Cavendish have done this sprint normally, he would probably have won the green jersey.

The officials decided to enforce the rules, it's their role. It was discussed aplenty at the moment.

Apparently the chief refused to hear Columbia's appeal not exactly following the rules eh?
 
Jul 27, 2009
7
0
0
Visit site
it was columbia own mistakes that led to their downfall for sure... cav irregular sprinting was very obvious as he was not going all out and has time to look back as well... we all know that columbia try to slow down the pace and tried to get hincapie in yellow...

columbia by doing tat maybe a hazard to the pack.. luckily they didnt cause any crash on tat day otherwise they would be critisized even more...
 
Jul 27, 2009
7
0
0
Visit site
to be honest,i think thor is extremely strong in this tour and deserve to win green jersey..

no doubt cav won many stages but also mainly due to such a good dedicated leadout everytime and thor did well to finish very close to cav despite not much help from his team...

hushovd had to fight for his position b4 the sprint on his own,trying to get cav wheels and tat alone is not easy and used up a lot energy b4 the sprint unlike cav who was sheltered all the time.. hushovd was fighting for position against many sprinters like farrar,freire and many more.. in the end hushovd was not able to win cav head to head since he has to be much stronger than cav to be able to overtake him from behind.

btw,hushovd went on breakaway twice...

in summary,hushovd finish 5 times directly behind cav(1 in which cav was relegated)

in the end hushovd won green by only 10 points,but some might say if cav was not relegated,cav would win the green by 4 points..

stage 2:
1 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - High Road
4 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team

stage 3
1 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - High Road
2 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team

stage 4
ttt,i didnt see cav working much during the ttt as he was a protected rider but i'm sure hushovd work his *** off for the ttt for carlos sastre,he is a pretty decent tter as well

stage 5
3 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC
10 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team

stage 6
1 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team
16 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC

stage10
1 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC
2 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team

stage 11
1 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC
5 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team

stage 12
8 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC
9 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team

stage 13
6 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team
118 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC

stage 14
hushovd got 13th and cav was relegated for irregular sprinting

stage 17
hushovd solo break for 100km to get 12 points

stage 19
1 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC
2 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team

stage 21-garmin blocked hushovd but hushovd was playing safe as well..
1 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - HTC
6 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervelo Test Team
 
Jun 16, 2009
860
0
0
Visit site
idiort said:
to be honest,i think thor is extremely strong in this tour and deserve to win green jersey..

no doubt cav won many stages but also mainly due to such a good dedicated leadout everytime and thor did well to finish very close to cav despite not much help from his team...

hushovd had to fight for his position b4 the sprint on his own,trying to get cav wheels and tat alone is not easy and used up a lot energy b4 the sprint unlike cav who was sheltered all the time.. hushovd was fighting for position against many sprinters like farrar,freire and many more.. in the end hushovd was not able to win cav head to head since he has to be much stronger than cav to be able to overtake him from behind.




QUOTE]







CAV was left to finsih a few sprints from more than 200 meters out at least one of them uphill. That is a long ways to sprint at top speed and really gives the advantage to the rider behind, but Thor not only couldn't come around, he couldn't hold the wheel
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
1
0
Visit site
frameforum said:
Check this out:
Now, in the TDF I was watching;

Cavendish won six stages, Hushovd one.

Cavendish was penalised 13 points; Hushovd won the points jersey by 10.
sensationalism dies down surrounding the Cav vs. Thor 'story', perhaps some might see his actions that day for what they were: a childish act by a so-called professional who should know better.

Fortunately for him, Sastre is too much of a gentleman to go around whingeing to the team management, or Hushovd and his tainted green jersey would be looking for a new team.

And as for Tan's stuff about Pellizotti's 'Racism' on the podium (discussed elsewhere)... well, it just beggars belief.

Seems to me, journalistic standards are no longer required when writing for Cyclingnews. Shame.

Firstly - I think Tans argument was that if Cav had not made the comment referring to the Green Jersey being stained that Thor probably would not have launched such an attack - and gaining 12 points in the process.

I agree with your point about the standards of some of the articles in Cyclingnews lately - some are somewhere between 'dumbing down' and tabloid.
 
runninboy said:
Apparently the chief refused to hear Columbia's appeal not exactly following the rules eh?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
My point is officials uphold the rules and they are more important than the results. whether or not this "ended" the Green Jersey competition is not their problem.

Some agree it was irregular sprinting, other don't.
Would Columbia have played the sprint normally, I doubt they could have been sanctioned though. The team was clearly hesitating between slowing the peloton to get the MJ but still leading it to not be overwhelmed by ther other sprinters.