Weight training question

[cawright1375]

Does anyone know if doing leg (hamstring) curls as part of a weight training regime that also includes the leg press & squats is a bit redundant? I long ago gave up doing leg extensions after reading and then experiencing some of the ill effects of them. The hamstring seems to get worked while doing both squats and leg presses so it would seem that I wouldn't have to do the leg curls?

Thoughts?

 

[TheNJDevil]

squats and leg presses focus mostly on the quads. Anytime you are extending the legs, you are using your quadricepts. I would not give up the hamstring curls as that does directly affect your cycling power thru the entire pedal stroke (pulling you leg thru the bottom and pulling back up).

 

[.Grahf]

Squats, for the most part, should work both your quads and hamstrings. Leg presses focus more on your quads (since your pelvis is not moving). I would add a hamstring exercise to keep the balance. Leg curls are OK, but a sort of deadlift, Romanian / stiff leg, would be more appropriate (just make sure you have someone show you how to do it properly so you do not injure your back).

 

[fatandfast]

All is good,but bike racers are easy to injure without cross training. The range of motion while clipped in is very limited. Other activity will develop strong muscle reactions, Weight training will help it further if done right. Stepping on a pebble will put you out without diversity in your workout. Plyometrics and jump rope will make a good addition to any thrust or squat exercise.Range of motion is key.

 

[Oldman]

squats and leg presses focus mostly on the quads. Anytime you are extending the legs, you are using your quadricepts. I would not give up the hamstring curls as that does directly affect your cycling power thru the entire pedal stroke (pulling you leg thru the bottom and pulling back up).

Agreed. That ability to pull up your pedal stroke is seriously helpful setting tempo. Would recommend that you settle on one of the excercises for power development (squats) and the other for well-controlled rep frequency with less weight (curls).
Leg extensions are good on the best theraputic-type equipment like an advanced Nautilus. You'd want good, fluid extensions and avoid locking out the knee (no bouncing). If you turn your toes in slightly as you advance the extension you can avoid a rebound effect.

Note that cyclists should be able to do many reps of any weight excercise; even sprinters. If you can't do at least 10 reps in a set; lighten up. Multiple sets are what imitate the load you are seeking.

 

[Tapeworm]

A couple of points, FWIW:

1) weights have been shown to provide no performance benefit for endurance cycling. There have been some studies which indicate there may be some benefit in doing single leg plymetrics. That bening said most of us have to live in the real world and some core and leg strength is always good. Just don't expect it to knock off 5mins off your 40km TT time. May help your sprint though.

2) Dr Jim Martin did a recent study of the power distribution in the pedal stroke. The most effective and most power is generated in the "downstroke" and negative torque is actually applied in the upstroke. The pedalling in circles is somewhat misleading. This was also the case for the pros in the study.

 

[Oldman]

A couple of points, FWIW:

1) weights have been shown to provide no performance benefit for endurance cycling. There have been some studies which indicate there may be some benefit in doing single leg plymetrics. That bening said most of us have to live in the real world and some core and leg strength is always good. Just don't expect it to knock off 5mins off your 40km TT time. May help your sprint though.

2) Dr Jim Martin did a recent study of the power distribution in the pedal stroke. The most effective and most power is generated in the "downstroke" and negative torque is actually applied in the upstroke. The pedalling in circles is somewhat misleading. This was also the case for the pros in the study.

I agree with this to an extent. If enough reps/sets are included it does begin to resemble interval training. While you're already in the gym you can strengthen core areas, shoulders, etc. The reality is you abandon all of that mass in the early season to be an effecient climber, rolleur, whatever. Weight training does seem to help recover from weaker lower back and neck issues after a long season.
Most pros use weight training as a recovery and restabilization effort before they launch into cycling specific stuff. Michael Rasmussen's picture in the Babes on Bikes comes to mind when things get too specific.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

Squats, for the most part, should work both your quads and hamstrings. Leg presses focus more on your quads (since your pelvis is not moving). I would add a hamstring exercise to keep the balance. Leg curls are OK, but a sort of deadlift, Romanian / stiff leg, would be more appropriate (just make sure you have someone show you how to do it properly so you do not injure your back).

I agree you should switch out the leg curl for the dead lift. This is a more effective hamstring exercise than the leg curl. Just make sure you keep your back straight and don't use too much weight, and lift with your LEGS. If done correctly you should feel results with the dead lift quickly.

The dead lift is great for helping increase your strength for the full range of motion, especially if you use a platform. And yes, make sure someone shows you proper form. When you get good, try one leg dead lifts to help coordination.

Hope this helps.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I agree with this to an extent. If enough reps/sets are included it does begin to resemble interval training.

No it won't.

The only thing that resembles pedalling, is pedalling.

The forces, joint angles and contraction speeds are completely different and hence will have a different training effect.

Indeed, it may well cause undesireable adaptations, if endurance cycling is your primary aim.

Principle of specificity applies.

 

[Oldman]

No it won't.

The only thing that resembles pedalling, is pedalling.

The forces, joint angles and contraction speeds are completely different and hence will have a different training effect.

Indeed, it may well cause undesireable adaptations, if endurance cycling is your primary aim.

Principle of specificity applies.

Sorry I wasn't more specific. Rep cycles will imitate intervals on a cardio level while providing some overall stability. Cyclists tend to get way too linear and prone to injury doing anything requiring a range of motion beyond a pedal stroke. I still have to mow my lawn, paint my house, etc. Hell, Jalabert couldn't even stay on a ladder fer chrissakes.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Sorry I wasn't more specific. Rep cycles will imitate intervals on a cardio level while providing some overall stability. Cyclists tend to get way too linear and prone to injury doing anything requiring a range of motion beyond a pedal stroke. I still have to mow my lawn, paint my house, etc. Hell, Jalabert couldn't even stay on a ladder fer chrissakes.

Fair enough, I just figure if this is a cycling training forum....

 

[timmyc]

actually, many many cyclists suffer from underdeveloped hamstrings because of the relative lack of use compared to the quads while riding, and this muscle imbalance can lead to a host of problems including lower back pain and hip issues. So, yes, do some hamstring exercises, you'll feel better on and off the bike.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Concerning weight training for cycling, I have been told pushing a big gear up a slight incline is a good way to build power instead of doing weight training in the gym. Anyone use this methord? Or is this a sure-fire way to knackering your knees?

 

[cromagnon]

A great way to improve hamstring development is sprint training. Also interval sets of 200m sprints are horrendously hard and will illicit at least some central cardiovascular "endurance" adaptations.

Be careful early on as you've got cyclists leg muscles that might not be at all balanced for running e.g. VMO/VL activation. You will be sore as hell too the first few times especially in the buttocks. In fact, just do dead lifts if you think it's important, or ride a fixed gear bike in the winter.

Although your hams will mainly work eccentrically when riding a fixed gear bike, happily the eccentric phase (lengthening) seems to be one of the primary stimuli to muscle hypertrophy, so you should get those ridiculous track rider hamstrings like obscene bags of meat hanging off the bottom of your thigh

 

[St. Elia]

Concerning weight training for cycling, I have been told pushing a big gear up a slight incline is a good way to build power instead of doing weight training in the gym. Anyone use this methord? Or is this a sure-fire way to knackering your knees?

I think most experts would agree that having a low cadence does put to much stress on the knee. Especially below 50rpm. I would argue that while you are using the muscles in a specific way I'm not sure that it would necessarily increase power output.

Dr. Ross is a big advocate of weight training and in particular I think it is very useful to sprinters but Endurance athlete I think also need to do weights at certain phases of their training. I would say Hamstring curls are important for balance and reduce injury but I wouldn't do a strength phase as single joint exercises generally cause you to gain weight with little advantage for cycling. At least this is what I have read.

 

[rutherdbrown]

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4.Make sure your diet is made up mainly from fruit, vegetables and fibre rich foods like bread and pasta.
5.Replace desserts with fruit to satisfy the craving for something sweet.
6.Don't eat large, heavy meals last thing at night or your body won't have chance to burn off those calories.
7.Drink plenty of water and low calorie drinks to help you feel full.
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[Boeing]

Does anyone know if doing leg (hamstring) curls as part of a weight training regime that also includes the leg press & squats is a bit redundant? I long ago gave up doing leg extensions after reading and then experiencing some of the ill effects of them. The hamstring seems to get worked while doing both squats and leg presses so it would seem that I wouldn't have to do the leg curls?

Thoughts?

I don't think so at all.

But I use lighter weights and higher reps than on the other leg routines mentioned here

 

[daviel]

Try some dead lifts - they'll work your hamstrings

 

[zenonzyta01]

Hello all,
If you're wanting to lose a little weight (or a lot!), forget the Fad diet, don't even think about the Crash diet.

Start with some of our straight forward tips and we promise with a little commitment and motivation you'll get there!


1.Start your day with a healthy breakfast to kick start your metabolism.
2.Eat regular meals- at least three per day.
3.Use low fat substitutes for dairy products wherever possible, for example, skimmed milk, low fat cheese, cottage cheese and yoghurt.
4.Make sure your diet is made up mainly from fruit, vegetables and fibre rich foods like bread and pasta.
5.Replace desserts with fruit to satisfy the craving for something sweet.
6.Don't eat large, heavy meals last thing at night or your body won't have chance to burn off those calories.
7.Drink plenty of water and low calorie drinks to help you feel full.
8.Make yourself more active, climb stairs and walk all short journeys.
9.Allow yourself treats occasionally or you may end up binging.
10.Don't be too hard on yourself, aim to lose weight slowly and it will stay off for good.