Well done with the pro teams

[ttrider]

UCI rightly hated by many has the pro teams right, i think all the teams that are in are totally deserved, the french only have AG2R and thats all they deserve. BMC, Luxemberg and Valconsoliel are teams that are going places and have earnt the recognition they deserve.

I also agree with the rejection of Pegasus and Geox....
Gianetti calling Juan jose cobo crucial with some iffy statements, the team will only perform well in GTs and hilly stage races (week long). Theyll get invited to those anyway but what will they do at the classics?! Jack all so good choice

Sorry Pegasus, nice idea but a main draw of rohregger and mcewan is never going to get a GT invite on merit.

The vast majority of racers who deserve to do gts will be there and that is how it should be, they no longer need to rely on luck like Valconsoliel this year and that is only right

 

[Cobber]

I disagree. Who is going to be left at Radioshack in a few months time? Geox should have gotten their license.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Yes right.
Screw the French, they've only been the cornerstone of cycling for the past hundred years or so.
Lets give PT licences to teams with four season wins, one GT contender and no support, plus a bunch of geriatrics whose bosses are under international investigation and could fold at any time.

 

[hrotha]

It's not like they could take RS's Pro Tour status away from them. Not much they could do about it. Remember Footon the last two years?

 

[Moondance]

Yes right.
Screw the French, they've only been the cornerstone of cycling for the past hundred years or so.
Lets give PT licences to teams with four season wins, one GT contender and no support, plus a bunch of geriatrics whose bosses are under international investigation and could fold at any time.

+1

French teams almost always entertain. BMC & the Shack spectacularly fail in this department.

 

[ingsve]

Yes right.
Screw the French, they've only been the cornerstone of cycling for the past hundred years or so.
Lets give PT licences to teams with four season wins, one GT contender and no support, plus a bunch of geriatrics whose bosses are under international investigation and could fold at any time.

So the licenses should instead go to teams with no GT contenders, no top sprinters and no top classics riders just because their parents generation rode in eras when 90% of cyclists came from only 5 countries?

 

[Arnout]

It's not like they could take RS's Pro Tour status away from them. Not much they could do about it. Remember Footon the last two years?

They could. That was exactly the point of the new rules. Otherwise it would've made no sense to wait with the decision for some of the teams (basically the 10 teams minus the 4 that already got the license with the first announcement) that already officially had a license for next year.

Although I understand that is a big step to make, especially for a team that includes riders who sponsor the UCI.

 

[hrotha]

They could. That was exactly the point of the new rules. Otherwise it would've made no sense to wait with the decision for some of the teams (basically the 10 teams minus the 4 that already got the license with the first announcement) that already officially had a license for next year.

Although I understand that is a big step to make, especially for a team that includes riders who sponsor the UCI.

Oops, my bad. I should remain more focused during the off-season.

 

[Christian]

So the licenses should instead go to teams with no GT contenders, no top sprinters and no top classics riders just because their parents generation rode in eras when 90% of cyclists came from only 5 countries?

+1000000

Keeping average french teams in just for nostalgic reasons would have been a mistake. Right now they deserve one ProTeam and they got it. Maybe in ten years their dry streak will be over and they'll have 3 again; Luxembourg will fold cause the Schlecks retire; Pegasus will be the strongest and we'll have a first African ProTeam ... but right now the French deserve 1 slot.

Plus Cofidis and Europcar are actually way better off not having to compete in China and Canada but I'm not going to get into that again.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So the licenses should instead go to teams with no GT contenders, no top sprinters and no top classics riders just because their parents generation rode in eras when 90% of cyclists came from only 5 countries?

It's the argument about BMC vs. Skil and Vacan for the Tour again.

Yes, BMC have a GT rider, though one who was knackered from the Giro. They have a relatively defensive GC guy to support, which gives you another team riding defensively in the péloton.

Skil and Vacan would animate the race by starting and causing and getting into the breakaways.

Futile though they may usually be, cycling would be a lot more boring without the Tommy Voecklers, Stéphane Augés and Jérôme Pineaus of the world; could you imagine a sprint stage without a single attack? I mean, christ, it's depressing enough to watch the péloton never let them get more than 3 minutes before going to the inevitable Cav tediousness. Part of the fun is daring to dream - like Pineau in the Giro, or Roux's fantastic win in the '09 Vuelta... when there isn't even that possibility, what's the point in taking part? But then, that makes the result inevitable, and that means what's the point in watching?

I guess what I'm saying is, there's more to it than ticking off who can contend for the top 10 in various races. Whose 2009 Tour do you remember, Stéphane Goubert's or Amets Txurruka's? A real problem is that the UCI's points system doesn't play to this; I remember the boss of Cofidis being apoplectic at the end of 2009, that because he was outside the top 20 of GC, David Moncoutié's Vuelta - in which he won the queen stage and the KOM - counted for nothing more than the same as something stupid, like Jürgen Roelandts managing three top 5s in bunch sprints in the Tour of Poland. Placing is made more important than winning minor competitions, and Tour de France syndrome is made to sweep through all the races, where it's better to defend 10th place than risk it all to win.

 

[Christian]

Futile though they may usually be, cycling would be a lot more boring without the Tommy Voecklers, Stéphane Augés and Jérôme Pineaus of the world; could you imagine a sprint stage without a single attack?

They'll still be there though. There will be 4 wild card invites to the Tour (I assume the same amount for Giro/Vuelta), so 1 of those is probably always Geox, but still 3 teams with Augés and Pineaus etc. is pretty good. I really think this is a good thing, since last year the Wild Card teams had GT contenders (BMC, Cervélo) and took away Skil's/Vacansoleil's slot; but now Geox is the only ProConti team with GC contenders, so all the rest is for teams who can animate the race.

Okay the French teams will probably not get to ride the Giro or Vuelta now, but then again Androni Gioccattoli, LPR Brakes or Xacobeo never got to ride the Tour and no one ever complained.

 

[ingsve]

It's the argument about BMC vs. Skil and Vacan for the Tour again.

No, this isn't about single invites, This is about what teams are good enough to ride a complete schedule of races over the whole year.

These teams that animate races with breaks do so because they have no other choice. There will always be teams like that in every race because of wild cards. But that is not a strategy to build a team on for competing in every top race in the year. You need to at least try to deserve to be in those races for something other than as comic relief.

 

[Matthijs]

bleuh, BMC in the ProTour? what are they thinking?
They had 4 wins (that's something like Topsport Vlaanderen right?). They have some good guys, I'd guess about nine. So they can ride one GT and some part of the other season with a decent team. Maybe autumn, maybe cobbles, maybe Ardennes. But all of them? and all 3GT's? Is the UCI even crazier then I imagined?
I know Pro Tour doesn't mean entrance to GT's, luckily. This way the UCI have made shure the GT's vs. UCI battles will continue...

OK, the other options, FDJ, Geox aren't the best teams maybe. But FDJ was quite high in the UCI-rankings. They only sucked is this new type of ranking which was communicated only afterwards. Very strange a team is good in the normal rankings, but then some new rankings pop up just at the end of this period?
I hope Geox ride all GT's. Their the only team which have winners of all 3. Since Contador-gate their are very few teams left with actual winners, how on earth is the team with 4 GT wins (against 4 others by active riders: Vino, Basso2x and Nibali) not in the highest league? this is only possible in cycling...

anyway, I think the rankings and UCI suck even more now. The rankings play in favor of guys like Evans coming on some podium instead of teams like FDJ who actually win some races...
(ok, deep respect for worlds and FW, but in general BMC's points do not come from their wins)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The biggest problems are twofold:

1) The teams have all been racing for one ranking system all year long, only for it to be revealed that the rankings are calculated in a completely different system at the end of the year. I don't have a problem with the new rankings, just with the way the teams only found out the criteria they were being judged on after the judgement was made - who's in charge of the UCI, Franz Kafka?

2) Because the rankings are based on the future team, not the present team, it biases the rankings hugely in favour of big money teams, new teams who can buy up riders with a healthy bank of points. A team could score enough to be in the top 18 by having its riders slave away for a team leader or two - then by taking those two riders away if they sign for a new big money team, that team that has been front and centre for a year can be relegated because its domestiques didn't score that many points.

 

[Mambo95]

The biggest problems are twofold:

1) The teams have all been racing for one ranking system all year long, only for it to be revealed that the rankings are calculated in a completely different system at the end of the year. I don't have a problem with the new rankings, just with the way the teams only found out the criteria they were being judged on after the judgement was made - who's in charge of the UCI, Franz Kafka?

The change of ranking systems didn't effect much. The top 18 all got licences expect Cervelo (RIP) and Androni, who have lost Scarponi who won 88% of their points.

They were replaced by Team Lux (no arguement from me) and Vacansoleil.

Your second point I generally agree with. I'd rather half the points went with the rider and half stayed with the team.

So if we chuck Vacansoleil out (they're the only one's who have actually bought their place) and replace them with Androni or Cofidis, and everything's good.

 

[Moondance]

The change of ranking systems didn't effect much. The top 18 all got licences expect Cervelo (RIP) and Androni, who have lost Scarponi who won 88% of their points.

They were replaced by Team Lux (no arguement from me) and Vacansoleil.

Your second point I generally agree with. I'd rather half the points went with the rider and half stayed with the team.

So if we chuck Vacansoleil out (they're the only one's who have actually bought their place) and replace them with Androni or Cofidis, and everything's good.

Vacansoleil have bought their place (which I would dispute) but Team Luxembourg haven't? Please explain that logic to me.

 

[Mambo95]

Vacansoleil have bought their place (which I would dispute) but Team Luxembourg haven't? Please explain that logic to me.

Well obviously Luxembourg have, but they're brand new, so had no chance to win points last season, so I excluded them.

 

[royalpig180]

So if we chuck Vacansoleil out (they're the only one's who have actually bought their place) and replace them with Androni or Cofidis, and everything's good.

From the UCI website (http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MjExMw&LangId=1)
2010 UCI Europe Tour:
1 (1) VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM Netherlands 2,624.4
2 (4) SAUR - SOJASUN France 1,564
3 (2) ISD - NERI Italy 1,503.2

They absolutely demolished the continental circuit this year, and animated the few ProTour/historic races that they were inivited to. Their place was certainly not "purchased." As the previous poster said, the Luxembourg team is clearly the one that purchased its place seeing as how IT DIDN'T EXIST LAST YEAR (similarily to Radioshack a year ago). I for one can't wait to see Vacansoleil in more major races.

 

[Moondance]

Well obviously Luxembourg have, but they're brand new, so had no chance to win points last season, so I excluded them.

Then how have Vacansoleil? The points Mosquera scored were not included in the calculated, two-year running total, at the request of the team. Ricco brought no UCI points to the table. The only new signing who brought in any points into the calculation was Stijn Devolder (mainly from his '09 Flanders win). If signing Stijn Devolder is Vacansoleil's 'big-money corrupting the system,' then I shudder to think of what you'd have said about Sky's blatant tapping up of Bradley Wiggins, to name but one example.

 

[Mambo95]

From the UCI website (http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MjExMw&LangId=1)
2010 UCI Europe Tour:
1 (1) VACANSOLEIL PRO CYCLING TEAM Netherlands 2,624.4
2 (4) SAUR - SOJASUN France 1,564
3 (2) ISD - NERI Italy 1,503.2

They absolutely demolished the continental circuit this year, and animated the few ProTour/historic races that they were inivited to. Their place was certainly not "purchased." As the previous poster said, the Luxembourg team is clearly the one that purchased its place seeing as how IT DIDN'T EXIST LAST YEAR (similarily to Radioshack a year ago). I for one can't wait to see Vacansoleil in more major races.

Yeah, I know, but that's not the point I was addressing. LS said that the UCI changed the goalposts at the last minute, which they did. I pointed out that the only difference this made was Vacansoleil in and Androni out.

 

[Anonymous]

UCI rightly hated by many has the pro teams right, i think all the teams that are in are totally deserved, the french only have AG2R and thats all they deserve. BMC, Luxemberg and Valconsoliel are teams that are going places and have earnt the recognition they deserve.

I also agree with the rejection of Pegasus and Geox....

Disagree, geox deserved a spot with sastre and menchov, vacon on the other hand somehow passed the ethical exam with ricco, bmc have evans and erm... who else (dont say phinney hes too young), and quickstep outside of 2 races a year are pointless.

I would have had geox ahead of vacon, bmc, and quickstep.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Then how have Vacansoleil? The points Mosquera scored were not included in the calculated, two-year running total, at the request of the team. Ricco brought no UCI points to the table. The only new signing who brought in any points into the calculation was Stijn Devolder (mainly from his '09 Flanders win). If signing Stijn Devolder is Vacansoleil's 'big-money corrupting the system,' then I shudder to think of what you'd have said about Sky's blatant tapping up of Bradley Wiggins, to name but one example.

Whoa whoa whoa. Riccò brought plenty of UCI points to the table. Under the old system he brought 0, but under the new system, lots - he won 2 stages and the GC of the Tour of Austria, 2 stages of the Settimana Lombarda, top scores in plenty of .HC and .1 rated Italian races.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dude you lost your argument by saying dumb **** like that. Just stop it.

If Vacansoleil have 'bought their way in', then what the hell have BMC, Sky etc been doing?

Sod off

 

[Mambo95]

Disagree, geox deserved a spot with sastre and menchov, vacon on the other hand somehow passed the ethical exam with ricco, bmc have evans and erm... who else (dont say phinney hes too young), and quickstep outside of 2 races a year are pointless.

I would have had geox ahead of vacon, bmc, and quickstep.

Geox will get a wild card to any stage race when Sastre or Menchov are on the team sheet. But after those two, they're pretty weak. VS, BMC and QS can send a worthwhile team to a greater range of races.

 

[blaxland]

Good to see Vacansoleil make the cut ...Geox will move up next year,so one year in the Pro/conti will do them good...Excellent news for BMC considering the Young Talent riding with them next season.(Phinney,Elissen)Overall a good result.