Wigwan said:
Excuse me? You mean you could be in a situation where some poor sod is wearing yellow on the run-in to Paris, but isn't actually going to win? Ridiculous.
-
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Excuse me? You mean you could be in a situation where some poor sod is wearing yellow on the run-in to Paris, but isn't actually going to win? Ridiculous.
Caruut said:
Didn't thought about it. I don't think it's a good idea neither, but I just tried to find a way for the sprinters to have a shot at yellow even though ASO don't want time bonuses.
1. Bring back time bonuses. The bonuses make the first week much more interesting. Plus, the bonuses give GC contenders a real incentive to challenge for stage wins.
2. Fix the Points competition. It's too heavily weighted towards the pure sprinters. The intermediate points change was good, favoring breakaways, but I'd lessen the difference on finishline points so that a flat stage win was worth no more than 10 points more than a mountaintop win.
3. Fix the KoM points. They've weighted the Cat 1 and HC climbs so much that Cat 3 & (especially) 4 climbs are all but irrelevant to the competition other than determining early jersey wearers.
2. Fix the Points competition. It's too heavily weighted towards the pure sprinters. The intermediate points change was good, favoring breakaways, but I'd lessen the difference on finishline points so that a flat stage win was worth no more than 10 points more than a mountaintop win.
3. Fix the KoM points. They've weighted the Cat 1 and HC climbs so much that Cat 3 & (especially) 4 climbs are all but irrelevant to the competition other than determining early jersey wearers.
Viking said:
Agree wholeheartedly. Actually, I'd make the finishline points identical for all stages. (with the current flat-stage table being used for all stages)
Viking said:
In my mind, the KoM points are about where they should be. Personally I would prefer the competition went to a climber than a breakaway rider.
Not sure how you would or could do it, but reward teams who win different types of stage i.e. ITT, TTT, sprint, medium and high mountain, so that you do not have one-horse teams either for one sprinter or one GC rider. Any suggestions?
The other question, is rather than tinkering around the edges with small changes, has the 3 week tour format past its sell by date? With a totally different audience than 50 years ago, should there be so much emphasis on one race. Being totally radical, instead of 3 3week tours, how about 9 or more 1 week tours, some weeks for sprinters, some for climbers, linked with some sort of league points system. It would mean more riders able to compete, more racing, and more difficult for one team/rider to dominate.
Just ideas to make it more interesting and appealing to a wider audience/sponsors. I can imagine the comments I will get from purists.
The other question, is rather than tinkering around the edges with small changes, has the 3 week tour format past its sell by date? With a totally different audience than 50 years ago, should there be so much emphasis on one race. Being totally radical, instead of 3 3week tours, how about 9 or more 1 week tours, some weeks for sprinters, some for climbers, linked with some sort of league points system. It would mean more riders able to compete, more racing, and more difficult for one team/rider to dominate.
Just ideas to make it more interesting and appealing to a wider audience/sponsors. I can imagine the comments I will get from purists.
Normandy said:
9 one-week tours, eh?
Sounds fantastic.
I have a few ideas already, we could do one in Australia to kick things off, then maybe one from Paris to Nice and another from Tirreno to Adriatico. Spain is rather nice - perhaps two of its most culturally distinct regions could host one. I propose Catalunya and the Basque Country. Perhaps a tour of Romandy, then a general Tour of Switzerland and a tour of France's Dauphiné region would be nice for the middle of the season. We've not really covered Benelux in our little series, so maybe a tour of Benelux would be good, and since it's all in West Europe so far, let's go around Poland, too. Wouldn't want things being too European, so let's cap the lovely 1-week racing series off by riding around the surrounding areas of Beijing.
Darn, that's 11.
In the spirit of stupid July posts, I think:
1. Every team should have two female riders. (Andy and Frank don't count as girls)
2. Dress code introduced requiring no sideburns.
On a serious note:
3. Get rid of the yellow helmets, looks ridiculous and im sure the sponsors are not happy either.
Other than that, leave everything as is. (Don't mind Hitch's points idea )
Hugh
1. Every team should have two female riders. (Andy and Frank don't count as girls)
2. Dress code introduced requiring no sideburns.
On a serious note:
3. Get rid of the yellow helmets, looks ridiculous and im sure the sponsors are not happy either.
Other than that, leave everything as is. (Don't mind Hitch's points idea )
Hugh
Rule changes
Time bonuses week one, so that there is a real fight for yellow. If it's ridiculous having some stages with bonuses and others without I say with is better.
Smaller teams. Fewer overall riders.
Points comp. I liked seeing the points jersey in Italy come down to Rodriguez vs Cav. If this was France as the route is flatter we'd see that naturally tilt things back in favour of the sprinters, no need to do it with points allocations as well.
KOM, I like it the way it is. Again the course should be used to even it up between the breakaway climbers Virenque/Rasmussen style and the GC riders.
Time bonuses week one, so that there is a real fight for yellow. If it's ridiculous having some stages with bonuses and others without I say with is better.
Smaller teams. Fewer overall riders.
Points comp. I liked seeing the points jersey in Italy come down to Rodriguez vs Cav. If this was France as the route is flatter we'd see that naturally tilt things back in favour of the sprinters, no need to do it with points allocations as well.
KOM, I like it the way it is. Again the course should be used to even it up between the breakaway climbers Virenque/Rasmussen style and the GC riders.
How about this: what can be done to reform the team classification to give it more prestige? Obviously, with the entrenchment shown by the new accessories, assume it is here to stay.
Make it the top 5 from each team to really reward depth?
More prize money or WT points to the team?
Maybe some sort of time bonus set up (winning team gets 20 second time bonus by the end kind-of-thing)
Reward team placing rather than combined time?
I have rebuttals for every suggestion, but these are just to kick start some conversation. I wonder what can be done to make that competition more interesting and inviting for competition.
Make it the top 5 from each team to really reward depth?
More prize money or WT points to the team?
Maybe some sort of time bonus set up (winning team gets 20 second time bonus by the end kind-of-thing)
Reward team placing rather than combined time?
I have rebuttals for every suggestion, but these are just to kick start some conversation. I wonder what can be done to make that competition more interesting and inviting for competition.
More Strides than Rides said:
First rider over the line from each team only, if you take a stage win, take the biggest time loss to that point, and make it equal to the winners time for that stage.
So at this stage Radioshack and Liquigas would be on equal time.
Caruut said:
Just bring in Zomegnan, and you will have 10 stages with MTFs and a ITT up the Tourmalent or Ventoux.
But the green jersey in the tour isn't quite the same as the red in the Giro (simply because of parcours) The Tour has a much bigger emphasis on long straight finishes that are perfect for trains. The Giro is famous for its windy sprints and short uphill finishes. Italy has better terrain for that. If you want to watch a points competition that favors the climbers, just watch the Giro. Plus its a more fun race!
Eliminate ITT as the prolog - avoids having same rider wear yellow for several days.
Include ITT every other year as final stage - it closes roads for longer length of time but should be doable (Giro final stage is often, if not always an ITT).
Include ITT every other year as final stage - it closes roads for longer length of time but should be doable (Giro final stage is often, if not always an ITT).
the Tour could put in a rule that there will be no more urine/blood tests during the race. UCI can test riders prior to and after the race for their charade.
another good rule is the first rider to cross the finish line wins, and the rider with the lowest (actual) cumulative time wins the GC.
let the peloton police themselves, like how it started in cycling, especially in a stage race this is much more effective than some arbitrary, nationalistic, political official watching a monitor or in a car behind the action
by your logic, if the tiny bit of clembuterol from a steak is cheating, or not telling your boss where you are going on holiday, then how is it not cheating to get 'bonus seconds' when you were not actually that much in front of the other guy? I call that cheating
there already is a pretty big reward for winning a stage of the TdF, nothing extra is needed
another good rule is the first rider to cross the finish line wins, and the rider with the lowest (actual) cumulative time wins the GC.
let the peloton police themselves, like how it started in cycling, especially in a stage race this is much more effective than some arbitrary, nationalistic, political official watching a monitor or in a car behind the action
by your logic, if the tiny bit of clembuterol from a steak is cheating, or not telling your boss where you are going on holiday, then how is it not cheating to get 'bonus seconds' when you were not actually that much in front of the other guy? I call that cheating
there already is a pretty big reward for winning a stage of the TdF, nothing extra is needed
There should be stage where all competitors must ride backwards. Also team cars must drive backwards, the crowd must face the fields and the slowest time wins.
Dan Martin would dominate. Potatoes.
Dan Martin would dominate. Potatoes.
world tour points for KOm and green jersey.
any member of the public causing a crash must provide 'gratification' to the entire peloton.
if you play your joker you can hop in the tour car and hitch a ride for 1km.
i dont believe in all of them....ok probably none.
any member of the public causing a crash must provide 'gratification' to the entire peloton.
if you play your joker you can hop in the tour car and hitch a ride for 1km.
i dont believe in all of them....ok probably none.
Like many of you I would like to see the time bonusses back. 10,6 and 4 seems very reasonable in that case.
Also smaller teams should be nice, and lead to less controlled racing. I would like that each year the teams will become somewhat smaller, leading to eventually 25 teams of 6 riders.
I would also like to create a jersey for the most attacking rider, based on the distance ridden in front of the peloton. These guys animate the race, and should be awarded for that. What about a red jersey?
As a last, I would like to see that the Tour, Paris Nice and the Dauphinee will set up a own combined invitation competition. Teams will only be invited in the next years races, if they at least won one stage or gained a top 5 in the overall classification in one of these events. Teams that do not succeed in this will be replaced by 'new' teams the next year. This should lead to a lot of drama, and more attacking riding.
Also smaller teams should be nice, and lead to less controlled racing. I would like that each year the teams will become somewhat smaller, leading to eventually 25 teams of 6 riders.
I would also like to create a jersey for the most attacking rider, based on the distance ridden in front of the peloton. These guys animate the race, and should be awarded for that. What about a red jersey?
As a last, I would like to see that the Tour, Paris Nice and the Dauphinee will set up a own combined invitation competition. Teams will only be invited in the next years races, if they at least won one stage or gained a top 5 in the overall classification in one of these events. Teams that do not succeed in this will be replaced by 'new' teams the next year. This should lead to a lot of drama, and more attacking riding.
Although I can see the pro's for time bonuses I'm a firm believer in the winner being the rider who covers the course in the shortest period of time.
The only suggestion I'm firmly for is reducing the team sizes to 8.
The only suggestion I'm firmly for is reducing the team sizes to 8.
They have that...it's called the red number. The reason that's not a jersey is to encourage that rider to be able to get away the next day, and not be brought back immediately, like he might well be if his leadership in the competition (or, more accurately, his victory in that competition the previous day) was easily recognizable.Another_Dutch_Guy said:
Edit to add: Good luck with that invitation competition...doesn't it already exist, only being called the UCI WorldTour?
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
Paris - Roubaix 2024, one day monument, April 7- Started by Dreginald
- Replies: 2K
-
-
Tour of the Alps 2024 (April 15 - 19)- Started by Devil's Elbow
- Replies: 359
-
-
Volta Ciclista a Catalunya 2024 (March 18-24)- Started by Devil's Elbow
- Replies: 2K
-
De Ronde van Vlaanderen (270.8 km), 2024 March 31 (Sunday)- Started by Netserk
- Replies: 1K
Latest posts
-
Liege Bastogne Liege-7 hour monument, Sunday, April 21, 2024- Latest: Logic-is-your-friend
-
-
-
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram