What cheating is worse?

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Multi-answer - Pick top 3 worst types of cheating. Assume all are not allowed.

  • Motor in bike

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D-Queued said:
I've been physically shoved into the fence (hand on hip from behind) in a race with UCI points. And there have been other stupid physical moves, but at lesser events.

I count doping as worse.

Dave.

My instances of shoving weren't even for UCI points. I would not call it common, but definitely a feature of weekend warrior bike racing in the U.S.
 
May 25, 2009
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Doping needs to be punished heavily not because it's a particularly heinous crime, but because it's hard to catch.

If you just doped once and got caught, you're pretty harshly treated. But the odds are that you got away with it loads of times
 
DirtyWorks said:
My instances of shoving weren't even for UCI points. I would not call it common, but definitely a feature of weekend warrior bike racing in the U.S.

I am sure that the track guys have tons of examples. My example was only to point out that it happens at all levels.

However, when one rider endangers another by not holding their line during a final sprint they do not face a two year ban.

Doping affects everything. To William H's point, it isn't easily observed, and cannot be self-policed by the other riders.

Dave.
 
Apr 20, 2014
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ebandit said:
numero 5...........voted crashing an opponents as that's potentially life threatening rest are just 'poor gamesmanship'

but why could I only choose 1 option........OP suggests multi choice

Mark L
I screwed up
 
In sports today the biggest fix is "not trying." Cricket, football, horse racing. Also corrupt officials re referees. Just say a rider had won classics before and was a red hot favourite to win an upcoming race. His odds are short and a lot of money has been put on him to win. Bookmakers are set to lose badly. It could be done even convincingly in a sprint finish etc but the trouble is is there that much money in cycling betting and the guy who has won previous classics is getting well paid anyway. It all depends on greed of course.

I think there is much more chance of corruption at doping controls not that testing seems to work very well anyway. It also depends on the betting. Other sports have multiple types of betting as well as live betting while the event is in progress. In cycling betting I don't know how many variations there are. Winner, placegetter, top 3 ? Which is nothing compared to the bigger sports.
 
I'd put doping as the least offence listed. Why? It's the one that causes the least outrage amongst the riders, so it's got to be the lesser offence no? :D;)

TBH anything that deliberately harms an opponent is the lowest form of cheating IMO. So I'll take all options that would involve that, followed by bribery of labs/officials.
 
Apr 20, 2014
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Brooks Fahey Baldwin said:
Forget limiting this to the pros.

The OP ignored sandbagging. Thats the worst in my opinion.
Maybe a definition of sandbagging is needed. To me, its just not doing as well as you could for other than being paid not to. By my definition - not even in the cheating category at all.
What is your definition of sandbagging?
 
Aug 16, 2011
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sponsor said:
Maybe a definition of sandbagging is needed. To me, its just not doing as well as you could for other than being paid not to. By my definition - not even in the cheating category at all.
What is your definition of sandbagging?

The definition I've always heard for sandbagging is doing races that are below your skill level to get an easy win. For example a rider with the fitness of a cat 3, but chooses to race with the cat 4's and get easy wins.

For pro ranks could be applied to top riders going to small races and cleaning up. Riders like Valverde, Greipel, etc. could be considered guilty of it.
 
Motor in the bike is worst. For all the others the cyclist needs some modicum of talent to be in the mix, albeit where drugs can turn a donkey into a racehorse. But the motor turns a snail into a racehorse, or the Hitch into a World Champion. It becomes a fundamentally different sport
 
Afrank said:
The definition I've always heard for sandbagging is doing races that are below your skill level to get an easy win. For example a rider with the fitness of a cat 3, but chooses to race with the cat 4's and get easy wins.

For pro ranks could be applied to top riders going to small races and cleaning up. Riders like Valverde, Greipel, etc. could be considered guilty of it.

I thought sandbagging is was pretending to be almost cooked so you don't take your turn in a break, can't really be considered cheating, part of racing imo
 
Jun 25, 2013
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I would probably say bribing a lab/uci - I mean riders can dope but if they aren't ever going to be caught well then we may as well lose all faith in the integrity of the competition.
 
Jun 25, 2013
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If sandbagging is cheating, well then given Mick Rogers performance in the final ITT at the giro before his dominate win up the Zoncolan it is another instance of cheating he can be found guilty of :rolleyes:
 
Mar 12, 2014
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Before I saw this thread, I hadn't really thought much about the issue. By now, I think one of the main distinguishing features is the amount of harm a method of cheating does, mainly to others. The fourth and fifth option seem to be the worst ones in this respect, since they will harm other riders and this may even be career-ending or life-threatening. The other options then are pretty hard to actually order. Tacks on the road mostly cause punctures, but as we saw in the 2012 TdF may also result in falls and broken bones. Then, most doping methods are most likely to harm the rider who actually dopes, but there are still rumours about the many crashes being caused by tramadol use, etc.
 
HSNHSN said:
Before I saw this thread, I hadn't really thought much about the issue. By now, I think one of the main distinguishing features is the amount of harm a method of cheating does, mainly to others. The fourth and fifth option seem to be the worst ones in this respect, since they will harm other riders and this may even be career-ending or life-threatening. The other options then are pretty hard to actually order. Tacks on the road mostly cause punctures, but as we saw in the 2012 TdF may also result in falls and broken bones. Then, most doping methods are most likely to harm the rider who actually dopes, but there are still rumours about the many crashes being caused by tramadol use, etc.

I suppose we need to go back to the original question and ask 'worse' in what way?

Extent of potential physical/bodily damage from one instance?
Singular economic consequence?
Extent that it is practiced?
Amount of distortion currently caused?

Many of the items on the list (e.g. crashing someone) are readily observable, and would likely result in quick reaction with consequence - even where the consequence is merely relegation.

Doping, however, is extensively practiced.

Where the financial gains are huge, the consequences of getting caught are minor. No prospect of even economic consequence other than paying back winnings. No fines, no jail, etc. Bans can be reduced.

Moreover, it never seems to get anywhere close to the universal condemnation that it deserves. In other words, 'we' let them get away with it.

Apologists actively or unknowingly conspire to further minimize negative consequence. 'Oh, the Tour is so hard they need to do it' type of BS.

On that basis alone, doping should be recognized as the worst. It is the most extensively practiced, least policed, punishments are inconveniences.

Just look at the 'abandoned' results from the Tour, let alone the asterisks like Indurain or the retained titles of dopers Riis, Pantani, Ullrich and Contadope let alone the Schleckette curiosity.

Since 1991 we have only, what, five Tours without current doping uncertainty?

That is a less than 25% clear winner success rate. That is less than a one in four chance of having a winner be a winner. The likelihood of any of the remainder not doping is also questionable.

The Tour de France results tell us everything we need to know. The poll results are in; cyclists are dopers.

Doping's extensive practice in cycling has made a mockery of the sport.

That doping cannot be easily singled out in this discussion as the worst form of cheating underscores that we will be stuck with doping for generations to come.

Dave.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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Doping is a sport-wide corruption.

It requires the corruption of racing team members, non-racer team members, physicians, trainers, online propagandists, journalists, national sports organizations, international sports organizations, politicians, and judges to work.

I believe this very extensive corruption of sport mirrors the corruption in our civilization today (look at how envy and greed are destroying many countries today).