What Doping is Vino doing right now, and how long before he is caught again?

Jun 11, 2009
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This guy is like a riced out honda civic. No engine whatsover but with lots of 'modifications' he can keep up with porsches and ferraris.

I'd be curious what doping he is doing now that he realizes that he can't homolougously blood dope.
 
Alexzulle said:
This guy is like a riced out honda civic. No engine whatsover but with lots of 'modifications' he can keep up with porsches and ferraris.

I'd be curious what doping he is doing now that he realizes that he can't homolougously blood dope.

Autologous - just like most of the top GC guys.
 
May 15, 2009
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Alexzulle said:
This guy is like a riced out honda civic. No engine whatsover but with lots of 'modifications' he can keep up with porsches and ferraris.

I'd be curious what doping he is doing now that he realizes that he can't homolougously blood dope.

But there is also an autologous one:)

I am really bored of time-trialists who suddenly become top tier climbers (BW) and I am bored of grand tours when the winner rides defensively and wins because of great time-trial (Menchov, Giro). I just want to see a natural relentless attacker, and this is Vino. Have you been following cycling for at least, let's say, seven years? If it is true, I don't know how can you say that he is an average rider who won only because of doping. Makes me wonder. And I am not even his fan.

He is the greatest all-rounder of 2000s, IMO, always reminded me of Jaja.
 
Delicato said:
But there is also an autologous one:)

I am really bored of time-trialists who suddenly become top tier climbers (BW) and I am bored of grand tours when the winner rides defensively and wins because of great time-trial (Menchov, Giro). I just want to see a natural relentless attacker, and this is Vino. Have you been following cycling for at least, let's say, seven years? If it is true, I don't know how can you say that he is an average rider who won only because of doping. Makes me wonder. And I am not even his fan.

He is the greatest all-rounder of 2000s, IMO, always reminded me of Jaja.

The point where I'll disagree with you is that Vino doped throughout his career, so how can you say he was 'natural'? Biggest and most organised doping does not equate to 'natural'. We've no way of knowing how good Vino really is. And that's what annoys me about the dopers. We don't know exactly how good they are without doping. Because the argument that they are all doping, so it's a level playing field, doesn't add up. Simply because not all riders have access to the best doping practices, due to money and so on. And also, as has been alluded to, some riders respond better.
I'd say alot of things about Vino, but natural sure as he** ain't one of them.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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How many ways can you discuss cardboard? Using is not the issue, it's getting caught. The criminals are far more than the guys getting caught. If the sport wants to end the stupidity, stop random tests on random riders. Everybody with a pro lic 3 or 4 times a year and the top 25 every day of any race with a prize list greater than 4000 euro. It will squeeze the **** to the bottom. Vino, Basso, Di Luca, Rasmussen, and the rest will be in a parking lot someplace racing for a soiled pair of my old bibs. Only catching and punishing a few unlucky people is not working. Most significant is that it actually is a surprise to the press and a lot of fans. The average fan thinks everybody is tested. Nobody in the TDF? But a stage winner caught 34 days before? Who are the people in these labs? Vino was right to put the testers on trial and deny no matter what. They are the weakest link in the mafia. If he can come back after two years and win and Armstrong can too the the level of talent is in the tank or the Ferarri and Charmicheal camps are kicking ***.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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to all the bitter cyclists who failed to meet the expectations of there own delusions. the truth is doped or not these guys vino etc.. are simply better more dedicated athletes(cyclists) than you or i. except it and move on or find another sport but please stop clogging the site with bitter threads that make you feel better. or as i said find another sport. regarding some its clear your very sorry people as far as individual security goes grow up. as a cyclist im often ashamed by a percentage of attitudes found on these forums.
 
Jun 13, 2009
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forty four said:
the truth is doped or not these guys vino etc.. are simply better more dedicated athletes(cyclists) than you or i. except it and move on or find another sport but please stop clogging the site with bitter threads that make you feel better. or as i said find another sport. regarding some its clear your very sorry people as far as individual security goes grow up. as a cyclist im often ashamed by a percentage of attitudes found on these forums.

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Jul 28, 2009
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Alexzulle said:
This guy is like a riced out honda civic. No engine whatsover but with lots of 'modifications' he can keep up with porsches and ferraris.

I'd be curious what doping he is doing now that he realizes that he can't homolougously blood dope.

No way can drugs make up for a lack of talent that's taking it too far, the average lard **** at a club ride could get lipo suction train a year and have one of those shady physicians and still not be able to hang on the back of a group. On a training ride.

That said the homologous transfer was most likely a mistake with blood bags. It's not as if Vino was riding a full season, he like many of the top guys focus on a few races and that gives them plenty of time to stock the freezer. Presumably in Vino's case, bags were labelled and maybe using a puerto-like code/nickname system. Lots of oppotunities for a simple mistake to be made, and he got someone elses blood. Doh!
 
cromagnon said:
No way can drugs make up for a lack of talent that's taking it too far, the average lard **** at a club ride could get lipo suction train a year and have one of those shady physicians and still not be able to hang on the back of a group. On a training ride.That said the homologous transfer was most likely a mistake with blood bags. It's not as if Vino was riding a full season, he like many of the top guys focus on a few races and that gives them plenty of time to stock the freezer. Presumably in Vino's case, bags were labelled and maybe using a puerto-like code/nickname system. Lots of oppotunities for a simple mistake to be made, and he got someone elses blood. Doh!

That's an extreme example.
But it can turn an average pro into a grand tour rider/contender.
 
I'm sure he doped before, and all but certain he will again. Getting caught is another story.

I liked his attacking style, but the guy struck me as one of the most doped up riders in the peloton. I mean, was anyone surprised he tested positive?
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'm sure he doped before, and all but certain he will again. Getting caught is another story.

I liked his attacking style, but the guy struck me as one of the most doped up riders in the peloton. I mean, was anyone surprised he tested positive?

Nope, not surprised by Vino being popped, and was even expecting it when Kash was popped. Anyone notice that, of the very few blood doping cases that have been nailed, it has been teammates (remember Tyler and Santi, 2004 Vuelta?)
 
Izoard said:
Nope, not surprised by Vino being popped, and was even expecting it when Kash was popped. Anyone notice that, of the very few blood doping cases that have been nailed, it has been teammates (remember Tyler and Santi, 2004 Vuelta?)

I've been saying forever, that the teams just mixed up the labels. That's what you get when you don't have Bruyneel's attention to detail.
Speaking of the Hog here is another little story I found online.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article6728035.ece
Apologise if you have already read it. It doesn't cover any new ground, but just comes from a new(to me anyway) source.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
I've been saying forever, that the teams just mixed up the labels. That's what you get when you don't have Bruyneel's attention to detail.

Me too! It's the details ... people get a bit lazy, things are not quite a full habit, and then in a GT things get too crazy. The next thing ... ummm ... oops. The other give-away, really fluctuating form (like totally crap and feeling sick, to totally awesome, to totally crap again) - kinda speaks to a pretty severe reaction.
 

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Jun 19, 2009
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I remember reading an article shortly after the Tour in 07 that the Astana team knew all samples from the Tour were to be tested at the LNDD at Chatenay-Malabry.

At the time the only lab able to detect homologous blood doping was the facility in Lausanne - however what the teams were not aware of was that Lausanne had shared their techniques with the LNDD prior to that Tour.
 
Hugh Januss said:
I've been saying forever, that the teams just mixed up the labels.
Quite possibly happened with Vino and Kashi. Though there was one suspicion that Vino had received a relatives blood, which he thought would not be caught by LNDD.

Yes, Kasheskin showed a lot of talent, but seemed to be obviously doping too. A little surprised that the Hog wasn't interested in Kashi at all. I can see him not wanting Vino, but Kashi is young, and seemed like he could be worked with to be a good racer.

It's been pretty much proven that a blood bag mix-up is not what happened with Tyler and Santi. I suspected it too at one point, but no. I don't have the links here, but one can look see, and read.

Yes, the whole thing is a "black science" and runs a lot of risks. Remember some of Sinkewitz statements on blood improperly clotting during re-infusion? Manzano was possibly on the edge of blood posioning, and could have gone into sepsis.

A great way to die.
 

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