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What if Valverde wins the Vuelta?

Jul 17, 2009
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Alejandro Valverde has already been banned by the COI for several months, and his status in other countries remains in a legal limbo. Even though he's trying to point to legal details to save his A$$, it appears the DNA comparison has proved beyond reasonable doubt that he doped and, therefore, he must be banned for two years.

Nevertheless, he keeps on riding, invited by all Spanish race organisers, who are willing to drop their pants to have him in their races. He is one of the favourites to win the Vuelta.

So, if he does win the Vuelta, do you think there's going to be an uproar on the part of the foreign riders? For example, French riders? The second-placed rider, who could see a prestigious win stolen from him by a bloke who shouldn't be here in first place? What would you do if you were second in a race won by a cyclist who has been proved to dope and should be banned?
 
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Anonymous

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if valverde wins, as far as im concerned whoever finished 2nd is hte winner

it will be interesting if the other riders let it happen, how much feeling is there towards valverde in the pelaton, etc etc.. they spanish screwed miller out of a vuelta, lets hope someone conspires to screw valverde out of one.. :D
 
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Anonymous

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stick, spokes springs to mind, but if anyone was gonna do it they needed to do it while in holland..

hes safe now hes in spain..

hang on.. maybe thats what tuesdays crashes where all about.. ;)
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Danilot said:
Alejandro Valverde has already been banned by the COI for several months, and his status in other countries remains in a legal limbo. Even though he's trying to point to legal details to save his A$$, it appears the DNA comparison has proved beyond reasonable doubt that he doped and, therefore, he must be banned for two years.

Nevertheless, he keeps on riding, invited by all Spanish race organisers, who are willing to drop their pants to have him in their races. He is one of the favourites to win the Vuelta.

So, if he does win the Vuelta, do you think there's going to be an uproar on the part of the foreign riders? For example, French riders? The second-placed rider, who could see a prestigious win stolen from him by a bloke who shouldn't be here in first place? What would you do if you were second in a race won by a cyclist who has been proved to dope and should be banned?

Agree with afpm90 - the silence from other riders is deafening. I doubt that they are worried about him doing well or even winning.

Do I think he should be banned? I actually do not think he should for various reasons, including that CONI's actions were in direct opposition to the judicial ruling of another country and the RFEC, and that extending the Italian ban to a world wide ban would make a scapegoat out of Valverde while the majority of other riders implicated in OP continue to ride (or have been forced to retire or accept lower profile and lower paid jobs). The handling of OP resulted in an almighty mess for which my personal opinion is it should just be written off as a lesson learned on how not to manage a drug bust and move on.
 
afpm90 said:
OMERTA my friend. They're all in the same thing. If not we would see riders protesting. This silence shows a lot.
I dont think it says a lot. Why should any rider poke his nose into matters what are not his concern, matters with what his not familiar in detail, why should any rider want to get involved?
 
May 26, 2009
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Von Mises said:
I dont think it says a lot. Why should any rider poke his nose into matters what are not his concern, matters with what his not familiar in detail, why should any rider want to get involved?

Gee, you don't think riders mind one of them is having an unfair advantage due to cheating?
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Franklin said:
Gee, you don't think riders mind one of them is having an unfair advantage due to cheating?

There is no suggestion that Valverde has any current advantage over his opposition in terms of physical capabilities (at least any they can't obtain or use themselves). Blood bags from Puerto are hardly being used right now.

I agree with Elapid. Valverde should be riding, as legal issues are legal issues. Rulings in courts stick, whether we agree with them or not. The UCI would have acted by now if they could. They've had the paperwork from CONI since before the TDF. Then again they might make the ban global, something the lawyers will have a field day with.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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If Valverde wins, why does 2nd place get the win ( if he is not using dop right now?) And it seems that Valverde are a well liked rider in the Pro-peleton so it wont come any uproar.
 
Danilot said:
It appears the DNA comparison has proved beyond reasonable doubt that he doped and, therefore, he must be banned for two years.
Intended to dope, at least.

I agree with Elapid. Though maybe I'm a little more critical in that I think he should have been suspended three and a half years ago when this whole mess started, along with some 50 other riders. At this point, it's so beyond any level of fairness, the governing bodies of cycling have made a mockery of the entire thing, and I think some sort of amnesty should be given to salvage whatever they can get out of riders. Now, even if I were the head of the UCI or RFEC, I'm not exactly sure how much I'd attempt suspend him.

Yes, the riders will do nothing if he wins. As BPC says, it's old news, and as afpm90 says, the omerta rules cycling. They all know the game. He wasn't the only one that doped, not even close, and it's unknown if he's doping any more or less than anyone else now, and the rest of the riders are willing to live with that.

I do have to say I'm hoping he doesn't win. I'd like to see a newer, fresher face on top of the podium.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Intended to dope, at least.

I agree with Elapid. Though maybe I'm a little more critical in that I think he should have been suspended three and a half years ago when this whole mess started, along with some 50 other riders. At this point, it's so beyond any level of fairness, the governing bodies of cycling have made a mockery of the entire thing, and I think some sort of amnesty should be given to salvage whatever they can get out of riders. Now, even if I were the head of the UCI or RFEC, I'm not exactly sure how much I'd attempt suspend him.

Yes, the riders will do nothing if he wins. As BPC says, it's old news, and as afpm90 says, the omerta rules cycling. They all know the game. He wasn't the only one that doped, not even close, and it's unknown if he's doping any more or less than anyone else now, and the rest of the riders are willing to live with that.

I do have to say I'm hoping he doesn't win. I'd like to see a newer, fresher face on top of the podium.

A newer fresher face would be good. But who would that be that would have no stigma of doping attached?
 
elapid said:
Do I think he should be banned? I actually do not think he should for various reasons, including that CONI's actions were in direct opposition to the judicial ruling of another country and the RFEC, and that extending the Italian ban to a world wide ban would make a scapegoat out of Valverde while the majority of other riders implicated in OP continue to ride (or have been forced to retire or accept lower profile and lower paid jobs). The handling of OP resulted in an almighty mess for which my personal opinion is it should just be written off as a lesson learned on how not to manage a drug bust and move on.

Yes, but tell that to Basso and Scarponi.

In this case it is the Spanish court, not Coni, that is the very obstructor of justice. And I frankly can't understand how anybody of reason, doesn't see it that way.:(
 
Apr 1, 2009
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rhubroma said:
Yes, but tell that to Basso and Scarponi.

In this case it is the Spanish court, not Coni, that is the very obstructor of justice. And I frankly can't understand how anybody of reason, doesn't see it that way.:(

Agree 100%. How they dropped the ball is beyond me. Although I think there was some legal stipulation regarding Doping being not illegal in Spain right at the time the blood bags were found or something? Still though with all the evidence that was available & the effort they took to obtain it & for the end result to be one of the biggest sweep under the carpet jobs in sports history sickens me.
What do we want? THE BLOOD BAGS TO BE GIVEN TO THE UCI FOR TESTING!!!
When do we want it? NOW!!!
What do we want to happen? ALL DNA MATCHED & PROOF POSITIVE EVIDENCE LINKING THE BLOOD BAGS TO PRO CYCLISTS OR ANY SPORTSMAN INVOLVED BANNED FOR 2 YEARS!!!!!

Sorry but what would seem to have been the most logical & plausible & fair solution was entangled & snuffed out by ink used to create words written in Spanish on legal headed paper. Still lets not forget that Spain is a nation that spends half of its average day sleeping.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Kerbdog said:
Sorry but what would seem to have been the most logical & plausible & fair solution was entangled & snuffed out by ink used to create words written in Spanish on legal headed paper. Still lets not forget that Spain is a nation that spends half of its average day sleeping.
I'd rather say that Spain is a country that rewards cheating and slacking-off, while penalising honesty and hard work.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Herman said:
If Valverde wins, why does 2nd place get the win ( if he is not using dop right now?) And it seems that Valverde are a well liked rider in the Pro-peleton so it wont come any uproar.

So the liked people shouldn't get busted because their will be uproar in the peleton. If your going to be banned in 1 country then you should be banned in all!
 
Once again, I question the UCI.
They plan an announcement on this affair, but delay and drag their feet.
It needs decisive action, now.
Clear it up or kick him out.
Any retrospective decision will not add credibility, were Valverde to win.
On the contrary. It will look like another whitewash.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Intended to dope, at least.

I agree with Elapid. Though maybe I'm a little more critical in that I think he should have been suspended three and a half years ago when this whole mess started, along with some 50 other riders. At this point, it's so beyond any level of fairness, the governing bodies of cycling have made a mockery of the entire thing, and I think some sort of amnesty should be given to salvage whatever they can get out of riders. Now, even if I were the head of the UCI or RFEC, I'm not exactly sure how much I'd attempt suspend him.

Yes, the riders will do nothing if he wins. As BPC says, it's old news, and as afpm90 says, the omerta rules cycling. They all know the game. He wasn't the only one that doped, not even close, and it's unknown if he's doping any more or less than anyone else now, and the rest of the riders are willing to live with that.

I do have to say I'm hoping he doesn't win. I'd like to see a newer, fresher face on top of the podium.

The riders couldn't say anything because of legal reasons as it is look upon as slander and possibly false accusations. I hope he doesn't win as well because i think we need new faces on top of the podium not a guy like Armstrong who has been there done that + has doping suspicion. I almost getting sick of AC win as he does have a few skeltons in the closet and i'm not really a big fan of the way he won this years tour.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
I hope your right!!!! i would like to see schleck win if it couldn't be cadel.

Yeah... I really like Andy as well. But I am also an Aussie so that trumps everything! So far, it looks extremely likely that Andy will drop out for the worlds, and Cadel probably will too unless he leading or well within striking distance. We'll see, I guess....
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Cobber said:
Yeah... I really like Andy as well. But I am also an Aussie so that trumps everything! So far, it looks extremely likely that Andy will drop out for the worlds, and Cadel probably will too unless he leading or well within striking distance. We'll see, I guess....

I think if Cadel can see himself on the podium or is in a good posi he has said that he will ride on. I think he could win but I don't think he will win but i don't think he'll be far off. Guys like sanchez, valverde, basso and mosquera have based their season around la vuelta. I personally think that he (Cadel) will finish la vuelta.
 
Franklin said:
Gee, you don't think riders mind one of them is having an unfair advantage due to cheating?

I dont say that they dont mind. I just say that they dont want to get involved. Most riders probably dont even understand in detail this Valverde case. Did he dope or not, what DNA, what needle, what year. There are courts involved, sporting organizationd from different countries are accusing each other - why the hell should "average joe" from peloton poke his nose in this mess. I know that I wouldnt even if´d be a clean rider on the peloton, what benefit I´d get tob involved in this legal mess.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Von Mises said:
I dont say that they dont mind. I just say that they dont want to get involved. Most riders probably dont even understand in detail this Valverde case. Did he dope or not, what DNA, what needle, what year. There are courts involved, sporting organizationd from different countries are accusing each other - why the hell should "average joe" from peloton poke his nose in this mess. I know that I wouldnt even if´d be a clean rider on the peloton, what benefit I´d get tob involved in this legal mess.

Sorry, but I think that is just silly talk. We know the details and we're just fans. Of course the professional peloton know the details. They work with Valverde and other riders implicated in Operation Puerto every racing day. They know better than we do about what is going on in the peloton and the details of Operation Puerto and Valverde's case. They lived it and are continuing to live with it and all its fallout. Professional cyclists are not dumb automatons, which you seem to be implying, but rather no different to you and I. Their silence is not because of a lack of intelligence or an unwillingness to get involved, its called Omerta.
 
May 26, 2009
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Von Mises said:
I dont say that they dont mind. I just say that they dont want to get involved.

Agreed.

To Elapid and Alpe, if I were a clean contender I would feel disadvantaged and would question riders like him. Strangely enough that seldom happens^^

The "maybe he is clean now, OP is years ago" is a lot easier to say if you aren't financially involved. This in itself is a very compelling argument that the omerta is still there.
 
Jul 31, 2009
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Who are these clean contenders you talk about? I don't know of any such people... What's the point of viewing the #2 as the winner if Valverde wins? It's way more likely that #2 is on the same medical program as #1 than it is that #2 is squeaky clean.