What makes a great GC rider?

[flatclimb]

What makes a great GC rider?

What separates the few skilled from the many in pro cycling today?

Is it the burning desire to not give up? When you're in the third week and the sun is beating on your back, you're jersey unzipped and you're scanning the mass of fans for the one holding out a bottle of water? How do you go on to be that rider who is making everyone suffer? The guy who pushes the pace just a little bit higher? The one who could make a noble man cry and get off his bike?

I was so impressed by Basso (Nibali too, he's got a great future) in this years Giro and I cannot wait to see how he matches up this year when he contends for the TDF. What I want to know is what makes a young kid like Andy S think that one day he would grow up to be shoulder to shoulder fighting for the TDF?

There are great one day racers who can tough it out and give it their all for a day. I love Canc, Boonen, Devolder, and Gilbert but they aren't GC riders. Some guys no matter what they do will never wave their country's flag on the Champs-Elysees and stand on the podium to have somebody zip up that yellow jersey.

Is it the weight? That someone smaller can fly up a hill? The endurance to say that "Hey I'm on stage 17, I know it's not easy but there is no way I'm letting off the gas and today I'm really going to make everyone suffer." ?

I'm not talking about someone who can be carried up the mountain by his army of willing soldiers. I'm talking about someone of the likes of Merckx, someone who has the ability to decide whether or not he wants to rip the legs off the entire peloton. You know there was a day where Eddy must have glanced at a bike and thought "I wonder if I'd be any good at this." and he was...

Please discuss.

 

[forumlurker]

inb4 clinic

 

[ingsve]

Here are my thoughts on GC riding:

Motivation is certainly an important factor. A rider like Moncoutie is known for being an extreme mood rider. If he doesn't feel like it then he won't push himself to stay high on GC. Otherwise he has the climbing ability to ge a lot more and better GC results than he has but to achieve that he would have had to have had a diffrent mindset.

Recovery is certainly an important factor in GC riding. This is also evident by the fact that a lot of doping isn't only to make you climb faster but also to make you recover faster between races. Certain good climbers lack the recovery talent and they usually get good stage results and good results in though classics but can't maintain a high GC.

Power to weight ratio is of course very important for climbing. You're simply not going to be good if you weigh to much. Very few riders can finish high on GC while weighing more that just slightly above 70kg. Indurain is an exception but he probably had illegal help and also when he won there was something like 100-120km of ITT plus 60-80 km of TTT in the Tour. Karpets is another rider that can finish around the top 10-top 15 mark while weighing 79 kg but that's very rare. Also weight often determines what type of climber you are. If you are of the heavier variety at around 70-72 kg then most often it's the type of climber that needs a steady pace without many accelerations. Lighter climbers can climb in a more start and stop way that can cause splits in the groups going up a climb.

Even with the fewer TT kms it's still important not too lose too much time on ITT. Certain small climbers can dominate climbs but lose time on ITTs and are vulnerable in things like cross winds and the occasional cobbles so they might lose their GC position on other places than in the mountains.

Finally the team is certainly important. It's not a coincidence that the team that has the GT winner more often than not finish the race with most riders still on the team. It doesn't have to be a team that can dominate in the mountains or anything like that just as long as it's good enough to spare the GC rider from wasting energy.

 

[JayKosta]

In stage races with serious mountains, the climbers gain a lot of time advantage.
They count on their teams to keep them safe and not lose time to other GC contenters on the other stages.

In a flat race (e.g. Quatar) it will be team strategy and wild sprints that decide the winner.
Maybe there will be some serious breakaways that are decisive, but probably it will be long days of big pack riding and crazyness in the last few K.

A great GC rider must have good strategy and support.
It is not necessary to become exhausted by trying to WIN any stages, just be very aware of overall time and contenters.
Of course the GC riders MUST be very strong, and not too dumb....

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[El Pistolero]

Bike handling skills in and out of the peloton
Not being afraid of a descend
You must be a good climber
You need a decent team
You need to be at least decent in the time trials
Luck
Strong mind


If you have all those things it's hard to get beaten.

Now I wish I could find that old vid where Contador spectacularly avoided a crash. Epic bike skills. It was still in his Liberty Seguros years.

edit: Found it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVzNFnOx-RA

 

[taiwan]

Consistency, ability to manage efforts over 3 weeks, roundedness (as opposed to extreme speacialism), tactical sense.

I think I might have contradicted what I said in the Giro thread about it being better for a pure climber than Menchov, but there you go.

 

[The Hitch]

You have to be a masochist.

Me i could motivate myself in a long distance run by telling myself "the pain will be over soon, the pain will be over soon, you can relax tomorow". But gt riders, cant do that, because there will be more pain the next day, and more pain the day after that and the day after that and so on.

As far as im concerned its not worth it. If they were earning 150 grand a week then maybe. But for the small salary and publicity cyclists earn, forget about it. Its not a fair deal.

A gc rider needs to have this (imo unfortunate) mentality that it is all worth it.

Clinic is in todays day the big thing, but if everyone is doing it, then its not the deciding variable.

Also, lets point out that pretty much all the major tdf riders have won 3rd week itts.

 

[roundabout]

DIY vs University support makes a difference

As for the question, i have no idea. Contador doesn't even want to tell the world what his VO2 max is.

 

[djlovesyou]

MO, TT, RE.

Simples.

Oh wait, that's not real life.

 

[soOpOSMthanks!]

PEDs and friends in higher places.

 

[usedtobefast]

PEDs and friends in higher places.

beat me to it.

but you still have to climb and TT like a madman. and be smart about where you are in the bunch.

 

[Ryaguas]

They have to be capable of entering the "red zone" and be able to stay there for long times, the incredible thing is that they train for that... just imagine train to learn how to suffer and be able to take massive amounts of pain... doping doesnt makes you invulnerable to the pain... you have to take it like a maaaaaaan...

When I see the attack of Contador in Verbier in 2009 I think "Dude! WTF! look his face! so calm! is like an easy ride for him" and that was in the 3rd week in a serious climb... the other face of the job is Cuddles in La Col de la Madeleine in Le Tour of 2010, He was really suffering, his face was so heartbreaking, he was suffering x 2, the pain of his legs and the pain of his injury, also the "moral pain" cuz he was dropped like an stone...

as other people says and everybody knows you have to be an AWESOME climber! capable to stay with the likes of Contador, Basso, Igor, etc (yep not Andrew so you and his belly full of anger could go to h*ll)... but that is not the end, also you need to be able to defend yourself in the TTs where your mind is essencial, you are alone agaisnt the clock, so you have to regulate yourself... just take a look to Andrew in the last Tour... He started the TT really hard taking 6 to 12s against Contador but He failed in the second part of the TT, why? He didnt distribute his energy well... Contador in a bad day even took 30s from him... he did a better job regulating himself...

You need an squad of mountain goats able to stay with you in the high mountain... they dont have to be the best of the best but they have to be able to defend you in the first parts... and now w/o the radios you have to be a good leader an a better tactician and adapt yourself to every race situation!

 

[Sanitiser]

The heart of a lion, the legs of a gazelle, the cunning of a fox, the eyes of an eagle and the arms of a chicken.

 

[ingsve]

The heart of a lion, the legs of a gazelle, the cunning of a fox, the eyes of an eagle and the arms of a chicken.

Or Eyes of the Hawk, Ears of the Wolf, Strength of the Bear and Speed of the Puma.

 

[pedaling squares]

I'll leave PED's out of the equation, which makes the whole point moot but, whatever.

God given natural talent. The kind that made you a beast on the junior scene long before you had been groomed and knew what the hell you were doing. You have the ability to recover from an all-out effort to make an all-out effort for several more days. You can sustain a hard pace on a long climb, repeat as necessary, and you can TT with the best of them.

Tactical nous. Where to place yourself, when to draw your sword, when to leave it in the scabbard. How to direct your teammates. When to follow the plan to the letter, when to ad lib a little.

Experience. How to plan your calendar. How to prepare for a race, a stage, a tour. What and when (not) to eat, what (not) to do. Which doofus to keep away from on the descents or the rough stuff.

A head for the game. You can deal with the pain, remain calm when things start to go sideways, and you don't throw in the towel after a bad day.

Unless you're as good as Ulle in 2003, you need some great teammates.

If you have all that and you still can't cut the mustard, it's time to call Dr. Ferrari, bribe the UCI, and ride for the dirtiest director in the bunch.

 

[flatclimb]

(yep not Andrew so you and his belly full of anger could go to h*ll)...

Was this directed at me? I was just using AS as an example. I don't really like him, I'm an AC guy but I didn't want to say him regarding the latest news.

 

[Ryaguas]

Was this directed at me? I was just using AS as an example. I don't really like him, I'm an AC guy but I didn't want to say him regarding the latest news.

That was more a general mention for those ppl that were going to say "Hey what about Andy? he should be in the list with the best climbers! etc"... cuz there is a lot of Andrew's fans here in the forum... until now I didnt realize that you wrote something about Andrew... Sry if I make you uncomfortable with my comment in no way was direct to you