What the hell just happened ?

[DavePat]

Two days ago Tygart tells us all thru L'Equipe that USADA is going to be sending the "reasoned decision" over to the UCI by the end of this month. Two days later he now tells us that it's gonna be more than two more weeks. What the hell just happened in the last two days ? Travis - We luv ya ma man but jeeeeeez.

 

[Huckleberry]

His dog ate the reasoned decision........

 

[coinneach]

McQuaid accepting report

BBC quoting a date of 15th October:
"We expect it to be sent no later than 15 October."

Cycling's governing body, the International Cycling Union, is awaiting the report before deciding whether or not to confirm Armstrong's ban.

UCI president Pat McQuaid admitted it was likely to be a case of rubberstamping Usada's decision though.

"Unless the Usada's decision and case file give serious reasons to do otherwise, the UCI has no intention to appeal to Court of Arbitration for Sport or not to recognise the Usada's sanctions on Lance Armstrong," he said. [/I][/I]

I can wait 2 weeks more, so long as they get it right and watertight

 

[Slava101]

It seems a bit worrying. I know they want to make the report very polished and hard to reject, but for an Organisation that has a decent number of employee's I would hope they could get the report done within the time limits they set for themselves.

I'm not one to think this a sign that something is up, it just seems a bit of a lackadaisical response.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Maybe GH's rumored confession is changing the rhetoric/approach of USADA's reasoned decision? Thats the only piece thing that changed in the last few days.

 

[DavePat]

I saw this little tidbit in VeloNation a couple of days ago. Notice the "additional evidence" part. I wonder if this isn't part of the new delay.

"The UCI issued a statement exactly one month ago requesting that reasoned decision, and has been waiting since. Speaking at the world road race championships UCI president Pat McQuaid said that he had expected the file sooner but didn’t know the reason for the delay. VeloNation understands that one element is that additional evidence has been gathered in the meantime and has been added to the overall case file.”

 

[DirtyWorks]

It seems a bit worrying. I know they want to make the report very polished and hard to reject, but for an Organisation that has a decent number of employee's I would hope they could get the report done within the time limits they set for themselves.

I'm not one to think this a sign that something is up, it just seems a bit of a lackadaisical response.

1. From USADA's perspective, the UCI is a very hostile partner. They cannot give any opportunity for the UCI to make stuff up to reject the finding.

2. They've also mentioned they have an enormous amount of testimony without any assistance from the Fed investigation.

3. They've got two more higher profile dopers to go to hearing soon, The Hog and Marti.

Hang tight. Hopefully, it is just i's being dotted and t's being crossed with limited resources.

I've been more pessimistic and cautious in the past. Now, wouldn't it be interesting if the documentation never made it into the UCI. We know the IOC has no interest in doping controversy, so maybe they are shoving a deal down Hein's throat to let sleeping dogs lie?

Maybe I need to get back to being more cautious for a while.

 

[thehog]

1. From USADA's perspective, the UCI is a very hostile partner. They cannot give any opportunity for the UCI to make stuff up to reject the finding.

2. They've also mentioned they have an enormous amount of testimony without any assistance from the Fed investigation.

3. They've got two more higher profile dopers to go to hearing soon, The Hog and Marti.

Hang tight. Hopefully, it is just i's being dotted and t's being crossed with limited resources.

I've been more pessimistic and cautious in the past. Now, wouldn't it be interesting if the documentation never made it into the UCI. We know the IOC has no interest in doping controversy, so maybe they are shoving a deal down Hein's throat to let sleeping dogs lie?

Maybe I need to get back to being more cautious for a while.

Perhaps WADA already has the report and will certify its contents before being handed on to the UCI? I think also they've handed it to an independent auditor/arbitrator to certify it also.

No doubt the UCI will get the report and do a Vrijman on it so they need to counter that move.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Two days ago Tygart tells us all thru L'Equipe that USADA is going to be sending the "reasoned decision" over to the UCI by the end of this month. Two days later he now tells us that it's gonna be more than two more weeks. What the hell just happened in the last two days ? Travis - We luv ya ma man but jeeeeeez.

They found traces of Lance Armstrong in Johan Bruyneel.

 

[Kennf1]

I saw this little tidbit in VeloNation a couple of days ago. Notice the "additional evidence" part. I wonder if this isn't part of the new delay.

"The UCI issued a statement exactly one month ago requesting that reasoned decision, and has been waiting since. Speaking at the world road race championships UCI president Pat McQuaid said that he had expected the file sooner but didn’t know the reason for the delay. VeloNation understands that one element is that additional evidence has been gathered in the meantime and has been added to the overall case file.”

I seem to recall Tygart saying in an interview that an additional witness came forward after USADA issued its sanction.

 

[gree0232]

Me thinks that what is happening here shoudl be taken with extreme caution. They gave Lance and company an ultimatum based on the 'evidence' they had, and now ... it appears perhaps their ducks are not in order.

All the talk of 30 times worse? Than what? All the allegations, save that of blood doping in his profile, are old hat.

We still have to wonder why one group of investigators decided not to press charges, and another decides to issue an ultimatum?

One thing is for sure, when it is finally released its going to be examined very, very closely. USADA is staking everything on this, and they had best get it right. Because up until now, its been anything but evidence that has driven this process. IMHO, that is not a good thing.

 

[DavePat]

I don't mind the extra 2 week wait Travis but Jesus - Don't shoot your freakin mouth off to L'Equipe only to have to walk it back two days later and playing right into Armstrong's PR machines wheelhouse.

 

[Race Radio]

Two days ago Tygart tells us all thru L'Equipe that USADA is going to be sending the "reasoned decision" over to the UCI by the end of this month. Two days later he now tells us that it's gonna be more than two more weeks. What the hell just happened in the last two days ? Travis - We luv ya ma man but jeeeeeez.

Travis did that interview several weeks ago. At the time the end of the month seemed like an achievable target.

There has been a pattern with this case. Information continues to be found

3 weeks from now the timing of the release will not factor in the discussion

 

[caryopsis]

Perhaps WADA already has the report and will certify its contents before being handed on to the UCI? I think also they've handed it to an independent auditor/arbitrator to certify it also.
No doubt the UCI will get the report and do a Vrijman on it so they need to counter that move.

interesting, thehog...to the bolded, I'm curious if you've heard whisperings to this effect or if you are purely speculating?

(to you others, no jokes about hoggie's posting credibility are needed - I'm aware of his record, pro and con )

 

[mr. tibbs]

They found traces of Lance Armstrong in Johan Bruyneel.

HAHAHAHAHA AH-HAHAHA!!

Oh dear.

 

[Zweistein]

It seems a bit worrying. I know they want to make the report very polished and hard to reject, but for an Organisation that has a decent number of employee's I would hope they could get the report done within the time limits they set for themselves.

I'm not one to think this a sign that something is up, it just seems a bit of a lackadaisical response.

LOL

Nice trolling. Whether it takes 2 more weeks or 2 more months doesn't matter as long as all the t's are crossed and all the i's are dotted. Lance's only hope is that they screw it up by trying to release it before it is 100% done.

 

[Berzin]

Me thinks that what is happening here should be taken with extreme caution. They gave Lance and company an ultimatum based on the 'evidence' they had, and now ... it appears perhaps their ducks are not in order.

The ducks are in order. What's happening is more ducks are joining the conga line, and it takes time to gather and sift through more and more evidence as it comes in.

All the talk of 30 times worse? Than what? All the allegations, save that of blood doping in his profile, are old hat.

Yeah. Keep thinking that the evidence produced so far is just a rehashing of what's in the public domain so far.

We still have to wonder why one group of investigators decided not to press charges, and another decides to issue an ultimatum?

Trolling par excellance, sir. Absolutely brilliant stuff.

One thing is for sure, when it is finally released its going to be examined very, very closely. USADA is staking everything on this, and they had best get it right. Because up until now, its been anything but evidence that has driven this process. IMHO, that is not a good thing.

What's driven this process IS evidence. You just haven't heard any of it because there haven't been any leaks from the USADA side.

 

[ValleyFlowers]

Pepi Marti or del Moral?

Any chance one or more of the 3 others named in the USADA charges who wanted to go to arbitration have now seen the writing on the wall and cut themselves a deal? That might account for some new evidence arriving after the sanction.

 

[DavePat]

Travis did that interview several weeks ago. At the time the end of the month seemed like an achievable target.

RR - Your post makes sense as usual but would ya please tell Travis the next time ya see him to please do all of his supporters a freakin favor and put a f**kin sock in it in the mean time. He's an attorney for god's sake. You never, ever, ever, ever, ever put a date on something that you don't have to. Ever !!!

Soap box mode off now Grrrr

 

[thehog]

Travis did that interview several weeks ago. At the time the end of the month seemed like an achievable target.

There has been a pattern with this case. Information continues to be found

3 weeks from now the timing of the release will not factor in the discussion

Found?

I'd say it keeps getting presented.

 

[Telmisartan new]

No drama here at all.There's too much on the line for a last minute f**k up,this is USADA taking extra care everything is watertight from a legal standpoint,nothing that can be picked on by eagle-eyed lawyers of Wonderboy.Perfectly normal.

 

[Race Radio]

Me thinks that what is happening here shoudl be taken with extreme caution. They gave Lance and company an ultimatum based on the 'evidence' they had, and now ... it appears perhaps their ducks are not in order.

All the talk of 30 times worse? Than what? All the allegations, save that of blood doping in his profile, are old hat.

We still have to wonder why one group of investigators decided not to press charges, and another decides to issue an ultimatum?

One thing is for sure, when it is finally released its going to be examined very, very closely. USADA is staking everything on this, and they had best get it right. Because up until now, its been anything but evidence that has driven this process. IMHO, that is not a good thing.

What group of investigators decided not to press charges? All of the investigators in the criminal case were in agreement to press charges, the charging papers were drawn up. A political appointee ignored their recommendations and did not file the charges

 

[gree0232]

The ducks are in order. What's happening is more ducks are joining the conga line, and it takes time to gather and sift through more and more evidence as it comes in.




Yeah. Keep thinking that the evidence produced so far is just a rehashing of what's in the public domain so far.




Trolling par excellance, sir. Absolutely brilliant stuff.




What's driven this process IS evidence. You just haven't heard any of it because there haven't been any leaks from the USADA side.

Oh? So when you hand someone an ultimatum based on evidence you will not allow them to see ... and then wait weeks to hand over the evidence to the bodies that enact your threatened sanctions ... this is good? This is how evidemced driven processes are done?

When you issue an ultimatum, its the equivalent of gun being put to someone's head. Do this ... or else. Well, the or else seems to be about the slowest trigger pull in the history of bullets.

A reminder, how many years on this forum have I said the one thing that will or will not get Lance is evidence? I mean rabid speculation about who did and did not turn on Lance is ... what? Evidence?

Let's see it. If Lance doped it should be proveable beyond a shadow of a doubt given what has been said for years no, but make no mistake about this, USADA has hung its reputation on nailing Lance.

And whether the Lance haters wish it, desire it, or welcome it, there will be push back. If, given the theatrics, the case is not absolutely airtight ... if they delayed releasing the evidence so a 'witness' could get one more race in ... too many if's.

Produce the evidence already.

BTW - running around accusing everything that disagrees with you as trolling is trolling. If you don't like it, skip it. You can keep the insults and childish insinuation aimed squarely at Lance of Cheryl, or whomever.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Oh? So when you hand someone an ultimatum based on evidence you will not allow them to see ... and then wait weeks to hand over the evidence to the bodies that enact your threatened sanctions ... this is good? This is how evidemced driven processes are done?

When you issue an ultimatum, its the equivalent of gun being put to someone's head. Do this ... or else. Well, the or else seems to be about the slowest trigger pull in the history of bullets.

A reminder, how many years on this forum have I said the one thing that will or will not get Lance is evidence? I mean rabid speculation about who did and did not turn on Lance is ... what? Evidence?

Let's see it. If Lance doped it should be proveable beyond a shadow of a doubt given what has been said for years no, but make no mistake about this, USADA has hung its reputation on nailing Lance.

And whether the Lance haters wish it, desire it, or welcome it, there will be push back. If, given the theatrics, the case is not absolutely airtight ... if they delayed releasing the evidence so a 'witness' could get one more race in ... too many if's.

Produce the evidence already.

BTW - running around accusing everything that disagrees with you as trolling is trolling. If you don't like it, skip it. You can keep the insults and childish insinuation aimed squarely at Lance of Cheryl, or whomever.

Hi Gree,
It was called arbitration - Armstrong decided he would not go there because he knew the gun put to his head had lots of ammunition in it.

The "evidence" would not have been produced until the arbitration which was not to be scheduled until (at the earliest) November.
So putting all the evidence (because there is lots of it, as witness testimony is evidence) would take time.

 

[JeffreyPerry]

Travis did that interview several weeks ago. At the time the end of the month seemed like an achievable target.

There has been a pattern with this case. Information continues to be found

3 weeks from now the timing of the release will not factor in the discussion

Can they use that information? That seems to me like finding cookies missing from the jar and crumbs on your kid...tell him he's gonna be punished tomorrow. Then when the kid goes poop you find traces of Oreo's, so you add that in and send him to the corner for twice as long.
What I'm asking is will there be potential for more severe punishment because of the "new" information?
Jeff