Wouldn't cycling be boring without doping? Think about it: what would we have to talk about on CN Forum if we didn't have dope? Dope is the Little Engine that Can move us along this happy trail of cycling nirvana.
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What would we do without doping?
- Thread starter Sheltowee
- Start date
As I have stated before.Your never going to stop doping.Someone will ALWAYS find a way to beat the system.Invariably humans on a whole are very creative and resourceful.Let them dope without constraints.If they dont mind compromising their health why should I?!Hell,our caveman ancestors probably doped.They were able to bring down much larger prey and decrease their hunting time by 20%.More time for the wifey and cave maintenance
Going back 20-30 years ago when we had no idea of doping, we probably would not have the Clinic Forum, and maybe we would be just as animated to discuss just pure racing. Clean or not I love cycling for what it is. I enjoy practicing the sport. I would enjoy the battles even more knowing that they are riding clean. So I would probably follow the sport at least the same or more without the doping.
Having said that, if we had the communication developments 20-30 years ago to what we have now, we would probably have learned about doping in the peloton fairly quickly. So we would probably be discussing it somehow at lower levels, but not ignoring it. That's just my opinion.
Last but not least, IMO, I don't think doping will ever go away anyway. Maybe I'll be happy enough if it is more contained than what it is now. To the point that a clean rider would have a shot at winning.
Having said that, if we had the communication developments 20-30 years ago to what we have now, we would probably have learned about doping in the peloton fairly quickly. So we would probably be discussing it somehow at lower levels, but not ignoring it. That's just my opinion.
Last but not least, IMO, I don't think doping will ever go away anyway. Maybe I'll be happy enough if it is more contained than what it is now. To the point that a clean rider would have a shot at winning.
Sheltowee said:
No, cycling would be much better without doping. For example, I would actually care what the riders themselves have to say in interviews and what not if I knew that the needle junkies were in the minority. But with so many riders getting busted in recent years it has caused me personally to view the sport with a jaundiced eye and disassociate myself from the riders personally. It would be cool to let myself admire and respect the riders again rather than looking at them as idiotic pawns who allow themselves to be treated as human racehorses and get shot full of drugs for our entertainment.
Sheltowee said:
Without doping we would have an exciting sport with the focus on racing instead of ridiculous accusations.
There is plenty of other things to discuss about racing. The sport was much more exciting pre 90s when doping was rarely mentioned. Now people think the sport is a joke
I can't remember who said it, but doping is all about "Prisoner's Dilemma"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
few wants to dope - but the nature of "prisoners dilemma" make them do it anyway. - can you blame them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
few wants to dope - but the nature of "prisoners dilemma" make them do it anyway. - can you blame them?
DarkWing said:
Yes it is a prisoner's dilemma. I blame "the system" in place more than I blame the individual riders, but yes I do blame them as well. Because you see for the vast majority of people they would be much better off working as a convenience store clerk or a busboy than attempting to be a pro cyclist. At this point I question the intelligence of anyone who desires to become a pro cyclist.
It's a case of "if you can't beat the system then simply opt out of being a part of it." So prisoner's dilemma pressure or not it is still the individual's choice to become a pro and dope.
Not have the endless "Haters" v "Fanboys" verbal headbutting sessions, as Lance, object of all this "obssession", would never have finished a Tour, let alone won one!
I posted these videos of the 1962 TdF in the Racing Forum, but I'll post them here now as well because doping was discussed (and the effects documented) in part 2. As an aside, the raids were cool, and I particularly thought it was funny that the business owners would then charge the TdF owners.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3EHJjHP6yc
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6ZycaBelU
It just goes to show that doping has been in cycling a long time, definitely before 1962, and will continue to be a problem for the forseeable future.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3EHJjHP6yc
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6ZycaBelU
It just goes to show that doping has been in cycling a long time, definitely before 1962, and will continue to be a problem for the forseeable future.
Dr. Maserati
BANNED
BanProCycling said:
I always appreciate short concise posts that articulate one's viewpoint. So thank you for confirming your bias and ridiculous opinions in three lines.
Your knowledge of cycling and in particular Pro Cycling could be written legibly on the back of a stamp. Quite simply -you have no idea what you are talking about.
Sheltowee said:
No - cycling to me is the greatest sport in the world.
It still retains everything that is wonderful about this sport - man and machine versus man and machine. Individuals having to use their strength and mental ability to overcome the terrain and their opponents.
I have stated this before that whenever I wish to see cycling at its best I choose to watch some local races and in particular Junior races.
I had that same passion in Pro Cycling - but I was ignorant to the scale of doping within the peloton.
If there was no doping within Pro Cycling I would follow every race and rider with enthusiasm and would never feel the need to question how the winner or participants achieved amazing performances.
Cheating will always be part of the sport - as indeed will doping - however the practices of those who continue to dope could be severely curtailed to limit the incidences and return the sport to its natural selection.
Hein Verbruggen was wrong when he said that people wanted to see high speed cycling - I believe most cycling fans would prefer slower closer racing rather than the sight of a team train in front of 30-40 riders on a final climb.
Dr. Maserati
BANNED
BanProCycling said:
I believe you are wrong - most of the people on the CN forum found it as they enjoy discussions about cycling.
Most of those that come to the Clinic are appalled at the current state of cycling and most are expressing a viewpoint on how to try and combat it. Why is that? Because of their passion for this sport.
We had an influx of posters on the main site during July - which would be the norm as the most prestigious race in Cycling is on.
However a large volume of those were to do with the exploits of one or two riders - their knowledge of cycling was limited to their view on these riders.
Many posters on this side of the forum are the same posters who offer excellent insight and analysis on various topics throughout the forum.
Whether it is a training regime for a new cyclist or sometimes amazing analysis or predictions in the Pro racing scene.
If there was no doping and no Clinic - they would still be posting their observations.
to BikeCentric , broken chain(especially), BanProCycling, Darkwing(nut)
you lot ever actually ride a bike? every feel the joy of why we all started?
training yourself to B as good as 1 can,
is it just moaning your thing?
the sport is sick and needs repaired.
kids biking now need to develop into riders with a chance of a career in a healthy , nurturing environment. why reconcile the future tour winners to a pharmacy and a post race life of depression and lie.
the wind is turning on the dopers.
if your not prepared to help the sport as a whole- all cyclists together: around the corner to school-the 10 mile spin to work- to the last 10k to D'uez village
- im sure there is a pool table with your name on it
you lot ever actually ride a bike? every feel the joy of why we all started?
training yourself to B as good as 1 can,
is it just moaning your thing?
the sport is sick and needs repaired.
kids biking now need to develop into riders with a chance of a career in a healthy , nurturing environment. why reconcile the future tour winners to a pharmacy and a post race life of depression and lie.
the wind is turning on the dopers.
if your not prepared to help the sport as a whole- all cyclists together: around the corner to school-the 10 mile spin to work- to the last 10k to D'uez village
- im sure there is a pool table with your name on it
the truth. said:
Well, I ride my bike to work every day as I have for 10 years; in the last week I did a cyclocross race and helped shop for and then built a new mountain bike for a new cyclist. I contribute whatever I want however I want, but thanks for your anonymous internet moralizing and judging, it was so very helpful!
I think "The Truth" got the wrong forist. Your thoughts are different to the other ones, I think.BikeCentric said:
BanProCycling said:
The people in the forum know nothing about cycling, nowhere near as much as you do. They just want to bla, bla, bla about what rider they think are dirty and bag his Lanceness. They dont really care about cycling otherwise they would love Lances great triumphs like you do. You are right, how could they know as much as you, they cant, you have done so much wonderful stuff.
Dr. Maserati
BANNED
WonderLance said:
There is only one thing more worrying then your lustful thoughts about Lance and that is your obsession for BPC....
I suppose you think Chavanel rode for Ag2R too?
Dr. Maserati said:
No, you are all obsessed with bringing him down.Chavanel is a great Belgium champion riding for Motorola team.
a quote from "the fabulous furry freak brothers" goes as follows...
"dope will get you through times of no money, better than, money
will get you through times of no dope."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabulous_Furry_Freak_Brothers
"dope will get you through times of no money, better than, money
will get you through times of no dope."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabulous_Furry_Freak_Brothers
the truth. said:
Sorry, I missed the post where I moaned, or condoned doping...
I simply said why I thought they were doping, and why it will be hard to get rid of.
and yes, I ride a bike.
BanProCycling said:
This is from someone who contributes close to zero to discussions outside of the Clinic. At least when you were using your ProTour puppet you were willing to talk about how shaving your legs made you more aerodynamic and how you could run a sub 1:1 gear on a road bike.
If there was no doping then some of us would go about our business in almost exactly the same way, but instead of hating guys like Ricardo Ricco and Michael Rasmussen for being unlike-able, uncharismatic, doping s**ts we'd dislike them for being unlike-able, uncharismatic s**ts.
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