What would you do if you INNOCENTLY tested positive?

[Oldman]

Like many have said; unless you've got an airtight explanation you should just plan for your post-sanction future. That and find out who had an interest in seeing you test positive, if anyone.

Rule 1:Basically don't get injected with anything unless you're getting surgically repaired. Rule 2: Don't take vitamins and reserve injesting supplements to main stream stuff everyone else uses like Gatorade. I'm also not a pro trying to train or recover from weeks of GC racing or I'd have my own folks looking out for everything that comes in contact with me while still trying to adhere to Rules 1 & 2 (presumably I'm big time enough to afford that).
If you're a low-budget pro you probably haven't attracted enough attention to get a tainted report.

 

[Lifeshape]

What would you dooooo....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgrTUUWVNP0

Well, I would probably read Dorothy Parker's poem Resume: “Razors pain you; rivers are damp; acids stain you; and drugs cause cramp. Guns aren't lawful; nooses give; gas smells awful; you might as well live.” Then I'd train really really...really hard for like 2 years while committing all of my income to clearing my name (while eating Ramen noodles and toast) and then launch a comeback bid and choke.

 

[Ferminal]

I know if you ever returned to the sport you might want to come back with a swag of medicines. If you bust positive when you think you're clean, you might as well join them.

 

[Oldman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgrTUUWVNP0

Well, I would probably read Dorothy Parker's poem Resume: “Razors pain you; rivers are damp; acids stain you; and drugs cause cramp. Guns aren't lawful; nooses give; gas smells awful; you might as well live.” Then I'd train really really...really hard for like 2 years while committing all of my income to clearing my name (while eating Ramen noodles and toast) and then launch a comeback bid and choke.

I'd be more inclined to become the MC of "What beers are you drinking...the TV show" and train really hard. Assuming a new name and no professional aspirations; I'd torment every ****y, overpaid amateur that thinks he's a bike racer and who dreams becoming the next LA (or, in some cases; the coming receptical of LA's, single-sphere trajectory). Oh wait, I'm already doing everything except the last parts. Either way it's going to be a bleak two years.

 

[usedtobefast]

if i tested pos and i thought i was clean? it is hard to say. i think the substance
and your own knowledge of your nutrition would play a part. a no win situation.
brings to mind Franz Kafka

 

[131313]

Perhaps a better question: Is it possible for a professional cyclist to "innocently" test positive?

I believe so, yes. Someone linked to it earlier, but Dave McCann is the poster boy for the accidental test. The real irony is that he was taking food-based supplements and eating like a monk to try to narrow the gap between him and the dopers. And, he truly had grand tour potential if he were willing to dope.

Moninger is another. No one really liked that guy, so if he were really doping someone would have ratted him out.

Lastly, I believe Zirbel, but I don't really expect anyone else to in this climate, so I'm not going to make a big speech on his behalf. People are going to believe what they're going to believe.

I can tell you that the original question is every clean racer's biggest fear. What if? Yes, it's rare, but it can happen. And to the folks saying 'just don't take any supplements', you're expressing a lot of ignorance of how food is actually made. I seriously doubt there's a single bike racer, and most likely a single person reading this who isn't ingesting 'supplements', whether they realize it or not.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I believe so, yes. Someone linked to it earlier, but Dave McCann is the poster boy for the accidental test. The real irony is that he was taking food-based supplements and eating like a monk to try to narrow the gap between him and the dopers. And, he truly had grand tour potential if he were willing to dope.

Moninger is another. No one really liked that guy, so if he were really doping someone would have ratted him out.

Lastly, I believe Zirbel, but I don't really expect anyone else to in this climate, so I'm not going to make a big speech on his behalf. People are going to believe what they're going to believe.

I can tell you that the original question is every clean racer's biggest fear. What if? Yes, it's rare, but it can happen. And to the folks saying 'just don't take any supplements', you're expressing a lot of ignorance of how food is actually made. I seriously doubt there's a single bike racer, and most likely a single person reading this who isn't ingesting 'supplements', whether they realize it or not.

My point was simply that as a professional you should be extremely careful of everything you put in your body. Most of the supplements that people take are nothing more than glorified snake oil. Example "EPNO" why is it legal? Simple, it doesn't work.
Also the tests are not generally so fine tuned that they would pick up a tiny residual amount from a tainted supplement.

 

[hfer07]

what really troubles me is to understand how a professional cyclist being aware of the regulations, and most of all, what is legal and what is prohibited, with a group of people & Doctors working around you to provide all the tools to "pass" all tests..
CAN EVER "INNOCENTLY" TESTED POSITIVE AT ALL?

if you mean "innocently" taking sh!t you shouldn't in the first place, or "innocently" taking advice from someone you shouldn't, or perhaps "innocently" ingesting sh!t you have no full knowledge of and hoping it won't pop, or maybe "innocently" you want to convince the world of something that others have failed trying? if that's the case- I'd say -yes, you are innocent!!!

 

[Oldman]

I believe so, yes. Someone linked to it earlier, but Dave McCann is the poster boy for the accidental test. The real irony is that he was taking food-based supplements and eating like a monk to try to narrow the gap between him and the dopers. And, he truly had grand tour potential if he were willing to dope.

Moninger is another. No one really liked that guy, so if he were really doping someone would have ratted him out.

Lastly, I believe Zirbel, but I don't really expect anyone else to in this climate, so I'm not going to make a big speech on his behalf. People are going to believe what they're going to believe.

I can tell you that the original question is every clean racer's biggest fear. What if? Yes, it's rare, but it can happen. And to the folks saying 'just don't take any supplements', you're expressing a lot of ignorance of how food is actually made. I seriously doubt there's a single bike racer, and most likely a single person reading this who isn't ingesting 'supplements', whether they realize it or not.

You really didn't think Alexi Grewal was the only only one on Coor's Light, did you? There were more domestic pharmaceutical experiments on that team than in most Spanish training camps.

 

[Inner Peace]

Interesting stuff.

Seems the 'cop it' approach is a common idea here. I'm not sure if I could ever live with myself by saying i'm guilty when I knew I was innocent. That's a really tough call for an individual to make, eh!

Someone raised the question about can you actually innocently test positive? I guess the four slightly possible explanations are very much a long shot.

As others said, the lab screw up is really unlikely.

The accidently ingested through supplements argument is slightly more plausible, but the burden of proof lies with the innocent 'cheater' so your in a pickle there.

The 'my team doped me' response is well, again, very hard to prove. I would never, ever, take any pills or injections my team doctor prescribed if I were pro even if it did get me fired for not complying.

Finally, the 'total conspiracy theory' is about your last resort. But if you can't prove you saw a unicorn, everyone just thinks you are crazy.

So basically, as BroDeal said - you are screwed. Unless you can pay the best scientists to prove innocence in a very dark shadow of public doubt, you are in trouble. I guess one other option is bribe. But breaking the rules to prove you didn't break the rules in the first place is a bit hypocritical...

This hypothetical blows my mind really. If I was ever a pro, seeing all these doping cases around me i'd be very very cautious. And I guess it starts before you are innocently 'busted'. As someone noted, keep all your data, maybe all your reciepts? all your documentation in regard to anything remotely medical related.. never let your team give you 'medicine'.. always read your labels...

I guess my overall conclusion from your responses are, in this sport, you need to continuely prove you are innocent well before you innocently fail a test

The nice guy approach, as we've seen with Zirbel, doesn't wash for most onlookers. Either does the 'i'm innocently stupid' argument.. You gotta have the smarts in this sport if you want to complete clean, win clean and then prove you are clean...

 

[python]

i would nominate this thread and the thread about joe papp's drug dealing as the two most interesting and thought stimulating topics.

good job inner peace.

 

[Ripper]

...

...

...

What these guys said covers it for me.

 

[Ripper]

My point was simply that as a professional you should be extremely careful of everything you put in your body. Most of the supplements that people take are nothing more than glorified snake oil. Example "EPNO" why is it legal? Simple, it doesn't work.
Also the tests are not generally so fine tuned that they would pick up a tiny residual amount from a tainted supplement.

Your pretty much bang on, except that some drugs are that quick to trigger. The funny thing about DHEA is while it would not take much to trigger a positive, it has a short half life, which means Zirbel either had a massive dose within a few days of the TT, or he had some that morning!

 

[riobonito92]

Interesting stuff.

I would never, ever, take any pills or injections my team doctor prescribed if I were pro even if it did get me fired for not complying.

I don't see this as a realistic option. My experience (low budget) is that team personnel lie constantly about what they give you. It's not as if the pills come in a nicely labelled bottle - you get a handful of stuff, unmarked, and told to take it - if you ask what it is you get told vitamins. Ditto IV - lots of "B12" being put in cyclists that way. As a rider you accept it, and not being too insistent about the truth enables you to keep a clean conscence.

As to the question: "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" would be an understandable response.

 

[step23]

I do not know how it was at the time of Copi, Merckx or Indurain, but at present the pro-cycling is more about the politics and business. And at this kind of environment one can expect anything to happen.
Call it naive, but I still cannot believe that the labs are sinless. In the end of the day it's all about the human beings. And if a guy (I think a Swiss dispatcher back in 2000s) can make two airplanes collapse in the air, a "dirty" blood sample would look like a chestnut.
As well all dopers' stories are individual and considering the "anything can happen" point, I tend to believe that "innocent doping" is possible.

 

[rhubroma]

- You're a pro-cyclist riding on a Pro Tour team.
- You know the sport has a tainted past, present and possibly future.
- You know you have never touched drugs.
- You know that all it takes is an A-sample non-negative as "proof" of cheating.

I repeat, you absolutely know that YOU NEVER TOUCHED DRUGS...

So, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Thanks all...

If you want a purely cynical response....STOP LYING TO YOURSELF.

 

[filipo]

It depends. Did I come out of nowhere and suddenly start winning big-ring TTs left and right, almost snatch a medal at Worlds before getting picked up by a big-league team? Then I'd probably blame my supplier -- er, coach.

Poor Zirbel. He was well on his way to becoming the next Svein Tuft.

 

[9000ft]

You have no good options. From the point of view of your career, the best thing for you to do is humbly "confess" even though in your mind you believe yourself innocent. That way, after you serve your suspension you might be able to make some sort of decent living racing a bike. Of course in the mean time, if you're just some average schmo from the middle of the peloton who pretty much just makes wage, you will need to make some sort of a living in the meantime and still train so you'll be ready in case a team wants you.

If you fight it, you will be ridiculed, broken financially, and odds are slim to none that the results will be overturned.

The other option is to do like Zirbel and say "screw this, as much as I love it, it's not worth it" step away and move on to life post bike racing.

 

[Oldman]

It depends. Did I come out of nowhere and suddenly start winning big-ring TTs left and right, almost snatch a medal at Worlds before getting picked up by a big-league team? Then I'd probably blame my supplier -- er, coach.

Poor Zirbel. He was well on his way to becoming the next Svein Tuft.

Except that Svein has always been the real sh*t.

 

[Galic Ho]

What would you do? First thing would be to find out what I had ingested that was tainted. Store everything and seal all my recent products. Have them tested. Why?

If you are innocent and did not knowingly seek out and take a banned substance then it was by accident. The tests do not lie. Though I can think of one runner off the top of my head whose A and B samples did not match. Probability of this occuring, less than 1%. Obvious answer is your supplements. Play the Rebekah Keat rule book. Find others who took your supplement and sue the pharmaceutical manufacturer who lied and placed tainted sources in its product. Sue, then sue some more, you know, to get even with the bodies that foolishly banned you. Why?

Again it is unlikely you will not sit out a ban. As I said, find the tainted product, have it tested ASAP and then sue everyone who screwed you over when the tests confirm you supplements contained bogus substances that get good people into trouble.

In the off chance you don't take supplements, just come clean. We all know you were taking PEDs.

 

[VeloFidelis]

were there any doping convictions from that past that seemed somewhat fishy (there was a pretty legitimate chance that the rider really was clean)?

Try asking Scott Moninger that question:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2002/nov02/nov21news

He took his two years with all the dignity he could muster, but in the end he is the victim of a system more concerned with an absolute.

Note: USADA has never lost a drug prosecution of a US athlete... ever! Infallible science? ... or political expedience?

 

[filipo]

Try asking Scott Moninger that question:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2002/nov02/nov21news

He took his two years with all the dignity he could muster, but in the end he is the victim of a system more concerned with an absolute.

He also took the drugs. Knowingly. His protests otherwise are BS and he knows it.