What's this man crush between Cadel and Lance???

[Moose McKnuckles]

Team numbers at worlds, 9 riders. Each rider votes on who the team rides for. 8 vote Gerrans, 7 aside from his own vote. Evans votes for himself. This and the results suggest it is more likely Evans rode for himself primarily and as a secondary thought for his nation. Who benefited more, Evans or Australia? The answer is also revealing. Cadel thinks of himself and his family first. This isn't a bad thing, but don't mistakenly assume he rides to fulfill patriotic virtue.

As for the theory of playing politics and building bridges. Cadel is better than Lance these days. He can climb and has a great chrono. He can benefit though because the Shack has 3 top 10 GC riders, a few who have issues with Contador. Issues I add, with their hurt egos. Alliances won't make a difference. None of them can out climb Contador so he won't be seriously threatened. On the contrary, the guys making alliances are threatened. On paper Spain have 3 of the top 5 GC riders. They can tag team the others all day long if the need.

I'm lost, other than Lance, who else has issues with Contador? Because a) Leipheimer wasn't even there and b) Kloden hasn't said a single bad word about Contador. What hurt egos do you mean?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

He's won the ****ing thing 7 times so knows alot more than most about winning it! I can't see the tour just awarding the title to the most physiologically able athlete.

You just did.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Team numbers at worlds, 9 riders. Each rider votes on who the team rides for. 8 vote Gerrans, 7 aside from his own vote. Evans votes for himself. This and the results suggest it is more likely Evans rode for himself primarily and as a secondary thought for his nation. Who benefited more, Evans or Australia? The answer is also revealing. Cadel thinks of himself and his family first. This isn't a bad thing, but don't mistakenly assume he rides to fulfill patriotic virtue.

I wasn't saying he won for australia but i was saying that the way he won in the australian colours was pretty special. IF that story is true about the voting then i think that is bad DS'ing by Neil Stephens. You wouldn't have a vote about who was leader. Saying evans rode for himself is bs. evans stayed back to let gerrans go up with the front group, he was there as backup and evans wasn't going to bridge up as he would bring other threats up to the front group (until he did by seeing that gerro was struggling). The aussies had a big party that night and evans had appreciated his team mates.

With the man crush, after Mende in 05 were evans sprinted past LA and LA had a sook, i don't think there 'relationship' got off to a great start.

 

[badboyberty]

I wasn't saying he won for australia but i was saying that the way he won in the australian colours was pretty special. IF that story is true about the voting then i think that is bad DS'ing by Neil Stephens. You wouldn't have a vote about who was leader. Saying evans rode for himself is bs. evans stayed back to let gerrans go up with the front group, he was there as backup and evans wasn't going to bridge up as he would bring other threats up to the front group (until he did by seeing that gerro was struggling). The aussies had a big party that night and evans had appreciated his team mates.

With the man crush, after Mende in 05 were evans sprinted past LA and LA had a sook, i don't think there 'relationship' got off to a great start.

The way I understood the stated tactics for the Australian team was Gerrans was the main protected rider with six riders working to get him to the finish in a small bunch, with Simon Clarke assigned to look after Cadel so he could play the wildcard. Everyone did what they were asked to do and in the end Cadel delivered the result required.

It's questionable whether Gerrans could have delivered the win had it came to a bunch finish with Cunego, Gilbert and Valverde; but it doesn't matter because the team strategy worked (largely thanks to Cancellara destroying everybody).

 

[auscyclefan94]

The way I understood the stated tactics for the Australian team was Gerrans was the main protected rider with six riders working to get him to the finish in a small bunch, with Simon Clarke assigned to look after Cadel so he could play the wildcard. Everyone did what they were asked to do and in the end Cadel delivered the result required.

It's questionable whether Gerrans could have delivered the win had it came to a bunch finish with Cunego, Gilbert and Valverde; but it doesn't matter because the team strategy worked (largely thanks to Cancellara destroying everybody).

Agreed. Gerrans packs a punch but cunego, gilbert and valverde pack a bigger punch.

 

[blackcat]

Agreed. Gerrans packs a punch but cunego, gilbert and valverde pack a bigger punch.

disagree.

Gerrans if he is positioned, can push those guys. In Haut Var in 2007 he got chopped in the kick and came back and got second to Pozzato. A slow speed sprint, where Gerrans can sprint for the win, he he a good chance against any of those guys. Those guys beat Gerro cos they are stronger, and better positioned to sprint for the win.

Gerrans speed is underrated. He aint no field sprinter tho, but if the sprint starts at 50kmph, he can push those aforementioned.

 

[blackcat]

I reckon if I were Aus management, I would have been working on a decimated field sprint, with Gerro up against those others. On the books, he was the best value rider, cos he could take those guys in a sprint, Evans had to ride clear of the field to win, and I saw no evidence he could win that mode.

So, I dont fault the Aus team for being in Gerrans equipe.

 

[PACONi]

I reckon if I were Aus management, I would have been working on a decimated field sprint, with Gerro up against those others. On the books, he was the best value rider, cos he could take those guys in a sprint, Evans had to ride clear of the field to win, and I saw no evidence he could win that mode.

So, I dont fault the Aus team for being in Gerrans equipe.

I just dont get where all the love for Gerrans came from. I mean, he won two stages in GT's which is good and all, but its not like he'd won a Monument or something. I guess my point is, his wins came in breaks in races where you get to have another go the following day. As opposed to a race where there is no tomorrow and everyone is having a real crack for the win.

Having said that Evans isn't exactly the winningest (I think I just made up a word) rider either.

I like both riders, and even with hindsight dual leadership was probably fair. Having a vote, if true, was a poor approach imo.

 

[blackcat]

nah, I dont see Gerrans winning a monument. But my point was if he came to the finish with a group of 6 or 7, he could pump them in the sprint.

I was comparing his chance, to Evans. My wrong perception was, Evans had to win solo, and I had seen no evidence of him being able to do that. I thought Gerrans could follow wheels, and win.

 

[auscyclefan94]

disagree.

Gerrans if he is positioned, can push those guys. In Haut Var in 2007 he got chopped in the kick and came back and got second to Pozzato. A slow speed sprint, where Gerrans can sprint for the win, he he a good chance against any of those guys. Those guys beat Gerro cos they are stronger, and better positioned to sprint for the win.

Gerrans speed is underrated. He aint no field sprinter tho, but if the sprint starts at 50kmph, he can push those aforementioned.

After 260km riding up and and down steep hills, gerrans couldn't out kick a valverde or cunego. i think he is equal to a gilbert in a sprint. in general gerro couldn't out kick valv or cunego.

 

[Tangled Tango]

i think they are all making alliances for next years tour.

the spanish always help each other out on the road, alpe d'huez 2008 tour says it all. valv and sanchez join in on the 'lets all work against cadel' train to help sastre get the win.

the only way to beat AC, is the way the Cadel lost the 2008 tour. everyone against him. everyone attacking him and not worrying about the rest. AC has to be the focus for all the teams, he is the benchmark.

AS, LA and CE all share a common goal, and they should adopt the spanish tactic of helping out competitors on other teams (sure it's frowned upon, but it's blindingly obvious that the spanish help each other out and have unwritten alliances) in order to stress out contador.

The Spanish are not in any way unique in creating alliances in cycling. It has been going on since the begining of racing, happens at most or all races including one day classics, during Tour breakaways ect. Nor is it always nationally motivated.

Sure CE needs friends to win, but it doesn´t seem likely that LA will give him anything other than a good luck, hope you have a bad day. LA wants to win and CE is not going to help him. Even if they work together to hurt AC, they can only do that on the tough climb stages and most likely they´ll end up hurting themselves while AC rides away.

I think the danger for AC will come during the first week,the cobbles,the wind. He´ll need the protection from his team and any other team that may help out like Garmin (not Spainish) Cassie (French/Spanish).....both teams that want AC after 2010. Even though LA probably won´t have what it takes to win, he´ll use all his influence both on the road and off to shake up AC.
So sure he and JB will try all and any alliance that suites their purposes.
At the very least it looks to be a more exciting, just as full of rivalry as 2009 was. I just hope we see less of the negative PR from the LA/JB camp.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The Spanish are not in any way unique in creating alliances in cycling. It has been going on since the begining of racing, happens at most or all races including one day classics, during Tour breakaways ect. Nor is it always nationally motivated.

Sure CE needs friends to win, but it doesn´t seem likely that LA will give him anything other than a good luck, hope you have a bad day. LA wants to win and CE is not going to help him. Even if they work together to hurt AC, they can only do that on the tough climb stages and most likely they´ll end up hurting themselves while AC rides away.

I think the danger for AC will come during the first week,the cobbles,the wind. He´ll need the protection from his team and any other team that may help out like Garmin (not Spainish) Cassie (French/Spanish).....both teams that want AC after 2010. Even though LA probably won´t have what it takes to win, he´ll use all his influence both on the road and off to shake up AC.
So sure he and JB will try all and any alliance that suites their purposes.
At the very least it looks to be a more exciting, just as full of rivalry as 2009 was. I just hope we see less of the negative PR from the LA/JB camp.

i think some of the opposing teams of AC need to work and target AC out. Put some pressure on the guy. JB will already have some plans on how to beat AC. As much as people may not like the guy, he is the master tactician. it will be a very interesting tour and the rivalry between LA and AC should be a main talking point on this forum Can't wait.

 

[Tangled Tango]

i think some of the opposing teams of AC need to work and target AC out. Put some pressure on the guy. JB will already have some plans on how to beat AC. As much as people may not like the guy, he is the master tactician. it will be a very interesting tour and the rivalry between LA and AC should be a main talking point on this forum Can't wait.

I agree on all points. However if AC is even remotely close in the GC when they hit the mts, there´s not much any of his rivals can do except attack him on his strongest terrain. All he´ll have to do is ride their wheels until he either has no teamates left or is ready to counter. It´s difficult to imagine a workable tactic against him in the 2010 Tour route, favouring the climbers as it does.

We not only have the LA/AC rivalry, we can include AS and CE as podium hopefuls. It should be a slugfest on the mtns and lets not forget Wiggins who should be stronger in 2010. Add Basso and Sastre and we could have one of the most exciting Tours in a long time. Bring it on!

It´s gonna be a great one.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The man crush continues

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/7362/Mutual-respect-for-Armstrong-and-Evans