What's your opinion about 2/3 parts of "Vuelta"?

Page 2 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Libertine Seguros said:
Too late. And if they're going to go with the effective one-climb stages there, they should at least make the final run-in Cuchu Puercu rather than Cordal.

Would love Cruz de Linares-Marabio-Cobertoria-Cordal-Angliru.

But really, I'd love a Puerto de la Cubilla summit finish, or Cobertoria from Pola de Lena afer the easy side of Cordal or something. There is so much they could do with Asturias rather than just keep using Angliru. Hell, go over to the other side of the province and use the Puerto de la Marta or something. Or Acebo, since the Vuelta a Asturias is floundering and not using it anymore. I would pay good money to see the Jito d'Escarandi too, though a bit like Covadonga it might be difficult to link it to many real lead-in climbs.
Get we start a petition to get Unipublic to hire you for stage designs?:D
 
Aug 31, 2012
349
0
0
Taxus4a said:
A todos nos molaria ver una etapa asi, pero joder, condicionaría toda la Vuelta mucho mejor sin Angliru.

That is a nice stage, but much better without Angliru at the end, Angliru is to be just with Cordal.

It is better a stage with Cobertoria, Linares, Tenebredo, Oviedo/Naranco.. the last stage of the Vuelta.
Para mí el día que Trobadiello esté asfaltado podrían hacer un etapón de 4 puertos de Categoría Especial:

This one for me could be a future stage for Vuelta with 4 climbs of Special Category (Oviedo-Farrapona):




 
Sep 21, 2009
2,978
0
0
Red Rick said:
Get we start a petition to get Unipublic to hire you for stage designs?:D
There's no way Unipublic hires someone who designs stages with the declared intent of having action far from the finish. They don't want to repeat the mistake of Fuente Dé.
 
Asturiano said:
Para mí el día que Trobadiello esté asfaltado podrían hacer un etapón de 4 puertos de Categoría Especial:

This one for me could be a future stage for Vuelta with 4 climbs of Special Category (Oviedo-Farrapona):
Pues si, me la pondría muy dura, casi tanto como a la afición asturiana :p

Impressive stage!


By the way...about what I said before:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vinokourov-nibali-not-yet-at-100-percent-in-vuelta


http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=65659

Nibali is 15-20 watts less than in the Giro

Despite that he could win this Vuelta, so the level is not hight.
The only top performance I have seen in this Vuelta is Dani Moreno in Valdepeñas de Jaen, and maybe Horner in Granada, but anything really impressive in numbers, just good.
 
Sep 8, 2012
110
0
0
SKSemtex said:
I love this analogy. Now, you have to finish it with Giro. Please :)
gospina said:
I need to know what the Giro is? a fling with a curvaceous Italian on a ferrari?
Oh god, I'll try. :eek:

I guess the Giro, as the earliest of the year, must be the coming of age experience with your geography teacher on a field trip to Scotland. By turns scary, titillating and wretched, it amounts to a lot of illegal activity in the rain which twists your perspective for some time to come. And it ends with someone in a hi-vis jacket losing their job.
 
Aug 13, 2010
3,317
0
0
Libertine Seguros said:
Too late. And if they're going to go with the effective one-climb stages there, they should at least make the final run-in Cuchu Puercu rather than Cordal.

Would love Cruz de Linares-Marabio-Cobertoria-Cordal-Angliru.

But really, I'd love a Puerto de la Cubilla summit finish, or Cobertoria from Pola de Lena afer the easy side of Cordal or something. There is so much they could do with Asturias rather than just keep using Angliru. Hell, go over to the other side of the province and use the Puerto de la Marta or something. Or Acebo, since the Vuelta a Asturias is floundering and not using it anymore. I would pay good money to see the Jito d'Escarandi too, though a bit like Covadonga it might be difficult to link it to many real lead-in climbs.
In some ways they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. From a media and money perspective it makes sense to have finishes on the more famous climbs. They will attract spectators and keep the sponsors happy (and lets face it they need to some extent do that).

On the flip side other mountains never get the chance to become famous because they are not visited enough or at all. That said Alp d'Huez, in terms of being used as a regular climb, is pretty recent so it does pay off to give these a chance.
 
Don't be late Pedro said:
In some ways they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. From a media and money perspective it makes sense to have finishes on the more famous climbs. They will attract spectators and keep the sponsors happy (and lets face it they need to some extent do that).

On the flip side other mountains never get the chance to become famous because they are not visited enough or at all. That said Alp d'Huez, in terms of being used as a regular climb, is pretty recent so it does pay off to give these a chance.
Lagos de Covadonga is similarly recent, but has suffered like Alpe d'Huez from over-familiarity. The Tour and Giro both have many legendary climbs, but the Vuelta has few truly legendary summits that are evocative in the same way as Galibier, Tourmalet (much as I detest it), Pordoi or Mortirolo. Covadonga is one of the few climbs the Vuelta has that has entered into cycling mythology at anything even remotely comparable to the legendary summits of the other two GTs, and as a result it has been overused in the hunt for an audience. The Alpe at least has the benefit of being able to be linked to Galibier, Croix-de-Fer or Glandon to create monster stages; Lagos de Covadonga is a little harder to manage something like that at due to its location. Remember, Formigal was the Vuelta's first true summit finish, and back in those days it finished in the Basque Country, so many of the historic climbs of the Vuelta were ones like Jaizkibel and Urkiola which a) are not as monolithic as the French/Italian ones owing to smaller size, and b) have not been able to be included owing to the avoiding of the Basque Country from the late 70s to 2011.

There are still new climbs being brought into the race regularly - and you could argue quite persuasively that the recent fad for finding more and more brutal walls to send the riders up commenced with the unveiling of the Alto de l'Angliru in 1999 - the Giro unveiled Monte Zoncolan por primera vez in 2003, Finestre in 2005 and returned to the long-forgotten Rifugio Gardeccia in 2011, for example, while Angelo Zomegnan, for all the positives he had as a race director, also with the 2011 Giro showed a bit of a tendency to go the same way as Unipublic have been with the MTF overload. The Vuelta relying on the same old same old is unsurprising, given they have fewer legendary climbs to call on thanks to the race not having really utilised the mountains to the fore until the days of the legendary climber Fuente, but at the same time this can disappoint fans as the Vuelta has the most potential of the three GTs for the discovery of new climbs since they have so many unused, or seldom-used climbs. When a new climb is discovered, it is not surprising to see it used regularly to establish its aura. But for a climb like L'Angliru, the aura is established now, and going there regularly can only diminish that. Remember, the Tour goes to l'Alpe d'Huez every two years. Ventoux is far more rare, but does that mean Ventoux is less well-thought-of by the cycling fans? Not a bit of it. Also it's worth remembering that Sierra Nevada is one of the Vuelta's "traditional" climbs, but there are many, many ways to climb it, and the toughest of all still remains untrodden, although they have done the first part of it (this year) and the second part of it (in 2009) separately.

Over the last few Vueltas, from 2008 onwards, we have seen a succession of new climbs added to the race's repertoire. You can even discount the Andorran/French climbs if you like, there's still quite a few new ones there.
- Naturlandia La Rabassa (Andorra)
- Estación de Esquí Fuentes de Invierno
- Alto del Rat Peñat
- Alto de la Sierra Nevada from El Purche via Collado de las Sabinas (2009 route)
- Valdepeñas de Jaén (while a puncheur finish rather than a major climb, it was still new in 2010 and looks like becoming part of the scenery at La Vuelta)
- Alto del Cotobello
- Bola del Mundo
- Estación de Esquí La Manzaneda
- Ancares
- Lagos de Somiedo (La Farrapona)
- Collado de la Gallina (Andorra)
- Cuitu Negru
- Alto de las Peñas Blancas
- El Dornajo via Güejar Sierra
- Peyragudes (France)

We've also seen the return of some long-forgotten climbs to the Vuelta (Peña Cabarga, Arrate, Urkiola). So they are doing a decent job of finding the new climbs, there's just still many left to go. Now, another thing the Vuelta does which I find mildly frustrating is the tendency to go "oh, that worked, let's do it again", with Xorret del Catí 2009 & 2010, Valdepeñas de Jaén 2010 & 2011 (then 2013), Peña Cabarga 2010 & 2011 (then 2013). I can definitely see Bola del Mundo becoming a staple of the Vuelta, simply because Navacerrada already was, and Bola del Mundo then becomes easily the toughest climb immediately overlooking Madrid, so they can run it as a penultimate day MTF with some level of regularity, also coming in from a regular Vuelta staple, the cobbled run-in in Ávila. But while it's fun, a few more of these climbs that Guillén is trying to establish are super steep finishes on top of climbs that aren't super-special in their own right; Cuitu Negru for example is a super difficult final 3km on top of the generally not very exciting Pajares climb. If they finish on an easy climb like Pajares, you might tempt long range attacks like the Liberty Seguros ambush in 2005, whereas if you finish on Cuitu Negru, the favourites will all arrive at the Puerto de Pajares together and handle the last 3km as the battle.

Angliru is now part of the mythology of the Vuelta. That cannot be denied, just as how Zoncolan is part of the mythology of the Giro now. But it's a super hard climb. Super hard. Those should be special attractions, not par for the course. Even if you have one such climb a year, there are plenty of those climbs in Spain. And that gives new climbs a chance to establish themselves. After all, what caused more discussion in the build up to the race? The brand new climb to El Dornajo? Or the real historic climbs in the Vuelta (Formigal and Monte Naranco)?
 
For me Angliru got epic status right away in 1999. It was a brilliant stage and Jimenez coming out of the fog to snatch the win was a conclusion in tone with the rest of the stage (regardless of how much help he did get along the way).
 
Sep 21, 2009
2,978
0
0
If you want to send riders from Asturias to Madrid after a big MTF you'd better have that MTF close to the transportation hub of your choice (train station or most likely airport) And the big MTF in Asturias closest to such transportation hub is... you get it?
 
Why should it be an MTF? Why can't it be an all out mountain stage into Oviedo ala Asturias 2010?

Say Arnicio-Colladiella-Cobertoria-Cruz de Linares-Tenebredo

or from the west

Leitariegos-San Lorenzo-Cobertoria-Cordal-Viapara and other little climbs nearby
 
Sep 21, 2009
2,978
0
0
roundabout said:
Why should it be an MTF? Why can't it be an all out mountain stage into Oviedo ala Asturias 2010?

Say Arnicio-Colladiella-Cobertoria-Cruz de Linares-Tenebredo

or from the west

Leitariegos-San Lorenzo-Cobertoria-Cordal-Viapara and other little climbs nearby
This is Unipublic ;)
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Lagos de Covadonga is similarly recent, but has suffered like Alpe d'Huez from over-familiarity. The Tour and Giro both have many legendary climbs, but the Vuelta has few truly legendary summits that are evocative in the same way as Galibier, Tourmalet (much as I detest it), Pordoi or Mortirolo. Covadonga is one of the few climbs the Vuelta has that has entered into cycling mythology at anything even remotely comparable to the legendary summits of the other two GTs, and as a result it has been overused in the hunt for an audience. The Alpe at least has the benefit of being able to be linked to Galibier, Croix-de-Fer or Glandon to create monster stages; Lagos de Covadonga is a little harder to manage something like that at due to its location. Remember, Formigal was the Vuelta's first true summit finish, and back in those days it finished in the Basque Country, so many of the historic climbs of the Vuelta were ones like Jaizkibel and Urkiola which a) are not as monolithic as the French/Italian ones owing to smaller size, and b) have not been able to be included owing to the avoiding of the Basque Country from the late 70s to 2011.

There are still new climbs being brought into the race regularly - and you could argue quite persuasively that the recent fad for finding more and more brutal walls to send the riders up commenced with the unveiling of the Alto de l'Angliru in 1999 - the Giro unveiled Monte Zoncolan por primera vez in 2003, Finestre in 2005 and returned to the long-forgotten Rifugio Gardeccia in 2011, for example, while Angelo Zomegnan, for all the positives he had as a race director, also with the 2011 Giro showed a bit of a tendency to go the same way as Unipublic have been with the MTF overload. The Vuelta relying on the same old same old is unsurprising, given they have fewer legendary climbs to call on thanks to the race not having really utilised the mountains to the fore until the days of the legendary climber Fuente, but at the same time this can disappoint fans as the Vuelta has the most potential of the three GTs for the discovery of new climbs since they have so many unused, or seldom-used climbs. When a new climb is discovered, it is not surprising to see it used regularly to establish its aura. But for a climb like L'Angliru, the aura is established now, and going there regularly can only diminish that. Remember, the Tour goes to l'Alpe d'Huez every two years. Ventoux is far more rare, but does that mean Ventoux is less well-thought-of by the cycling fans? Not a bit of it. Also it's worth remembering that Sierra Nevada is one of the Vuelta's "traditional" climbs, but there are many, many ways to climb it, and the toughest of all still remains untrodden, although they have done the first part of it (this year) and the second part of it (in 2009) separately.

Over the last few Vueltas, from 2008 onwards, we have seen a succession of new climbs added to the race's repertoire. You can even discount the Andorran/French climbs if you like, there's still quite a few new ones there.
- Naturlandia La Rabassa (Andorra)
- Estación de Esquí Fuentes de Invierno
- Alto del Rat Peñat
- Alto de la Sierra Nevada from El Purche via Collado de las Sabinas (2009 route)
- Valdepeñas de Jaén (while a puncheur finish rather than a major climb, it was still new in 2010 and looks like becoming part of the scenery at La Vuelta)
- Alto del Cotobello
- Bola del Mundo
- Estación de Esquí La Manzaneda
- Ancares
- Lagos de Somiedo (La Farrapona)
- Collado de la Gallina (Andorra)
- Cuitu Negru
- Alto de las Peñas Blancas
- El Dornajo via Güejar Sierra
- Peyragudes (France)

We've also seen the return of some long-forgotten climbs to the Vuelta (Peña Cabarga, Arrate, Urkiola). So they are doing a decent job of finding the new climbs, there's just still many left to go. Now, another thing the Vuelta does which I find mildly frustrating is the tendency to go "oh, that worked, let's do it again", with Xorret del Catí 2009 & 2010, Valdepeñas de Jaén 2010 & 2011 (then 2013), Peña Cabarga 2010 & 2011 (then 2013). I can definitely see Bola del Mundo becoming a staple of the Vuelta, simply because Navacerrada already was, and Bola del Mundo then becomes easily the toughest climb immediately overlooking Madrid, so they can run it as a penultimate day MTF with some level of regularity, also coming in from a regular Vuelta staple, the cobbled run-in in Ávila. But while it's fun, a few more of these climbs that Guillén is trying to establish are super steep finishes on top of climbs that aren't super-special in their own right; Cuitu Negru for example is a super difficult final 3km on top of the generally not very exciting Pajares climb. If they finish on an easy climb like Pajares, you might tempt long range attacks like the Liberty Seguros ambush in 2005, whereas if you finish on Cuitu Negru, the favourites will all arrive at the Puerto de Pajares together and handle the last 3km as the battle.

Angliru is now part of the mythology of the Vuelta. That cannot be denied, just as how Zoncolan is part of the mythology of the Giro now. But it's a super hard climb. Super hard. Those should be special attractions, not par for the course. Even if you have one such climb a year, there are plenty of those climbs in Spain. And that gives new climbs a chance to establish themselves. After all, what caused more discussion in the build up to the race? The brand new climb to El Dornajo? Or the real historic climbs in the Vuelta (Formigal and Monte Naranco)?
I would like to see (and it applies also to Giro and Tour, not just Vuelta): a) stages with descent finishes and these must be long and complicated to make a difference, also b) stages with cobbles or gravel sections, smth unusual and hard.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,216
0
0
icefire said:
There's no way Unipublic hires someone who designs stages with the declared intent of having action far from the finish. They don't want to repeat the mistake of Fuente Dé.
What did you mean by Feunte De?

If you are talking about a stage that looks mostly uneventful for GC competition, then probably it was a mistake.

But if you look at it as a stage where the most daring can repeat that legendary performance of AC; then we actually need a lot of stages like that; especially in the final week.
 
murali said:
What did you mean by Feunte De?

If you are talking about a stage that looks mostly uneventful for GC competition, then probably it was a mistake.

But if you look at it as a stage where the most daring can repeat that legendary performance of AC; then we actually need a lot of stages like that; especially in the final week.
What he means is that the action happened so early they couldn't even get it on tape. It definitely went against their plans.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS