Wheels: Clinchers vs. Tubular vs. Tubeless

[gree0232]

Unfortunately, I have only ridden two of these, but there are some definite trade offs between the various wheel types that are out there. And I was wondering if there is any real difference, performance or safety wise, between the wheels?

For training and even everyday riding, I prefer clinchers for one simple reason: flats. Changing a tube out and re-inflating takes all of five minutes, and they appear to be quite capable of handling the conditions that I ride through. However, I seen a few posts about punctures at high speeds invariably resulting in crashes. I have had a few punctures in my days, but I have to say that the only thing that truly blows when it has happened has been my vocabulary.

I have used tubulars as well, and they are a comfortable ride and the wheels they are attached to are certainly lighter. My issue with them is that there is always the nagging feeling that I will catch a flat and then be stuck. As I am an enthusiastic amateur and not a sponsored rider, a flat out in the middle of the wilds in potentially devestating. Although I have to say, I have yet to have a flat with a with a tubular. There is always some worry about the glue letting go as well, and anyone who watch Beloki faceplant in the 2003 Tour knows what can happen if the glue lets go. Again, not something I have seen, but certainly a reason why I tend to avoid tubulars on rides with a lot of significant ups and downs (which sort of defeats the purpose of the lighter wheels I suppose?)

Finally there is tubeless, which I cannot say I have tried but does seem to offer the advantages of avoiding pinch flats with the ease of simply inserting and inflating an inner tube and patch to fix any flats.

I am pretty sure that my knowledge is not extensive, but I would be curious to see how other riders have faired with their chosen wheels and why they made the choice.

 

[flyor64]

Lennard Zinn offers some great point/counter-point stuff on all three options. I can not form an opinion on any since I've only ever ridden clinchers. Now, my mtb is rigged is tubeless and I absolutely love it...but have not considered making that leap on the road just yet....here's those articles:

http://beta.velonews.com/article/81035

http://beta.velonews.com/article/81321

http://beta.velonews.com/article/82373

Enjoy! Hope it helps...

 

[Pietro]

Unfortunately, I have only ridden two of these, but there are some definite trade offs between the various wheel types that are out there. And I was wondering if there is any real difference, performance or safety wise, between the wheels?

For training and even everyday riding, I prefer clinchers for one simple reason: flats. Changing a tube out and re-inflating takes all of five minutes, and they appear to be quite capable of handling the conditions that I ride through. However, I seen a few posts about punctures at high speeds invariably resulting in crashes. I have had a few punctures in my days, but I have to say that the only thing that truly blows when it has happened has been my vocabulary.

I have used tubulars as well, and they are a comfortable ride and the wheels they are attached to are certainly lighter. My issue with them is that there is always the nagging feeling that I will catch a flat and then be stuck. As I am an enthusiastic amateur and not a sponsored rider, a flat out in the middle of the wilds in potentially devestating. Although I have to say, I have yet to have a flat with a with a tubular. There is always some worry about the glue letting go as well, and anyone who watch Beloki faceplant in the 2003 Tour knows what can happen if the glue lets go. Again, not something I have seen, but certainly a reason why I tend to avoid tubulars on rides with a lot of significant ups and downs (which sort of defeats the purpose of the lighter wheels I suppose?)

Finally there is tubeless, which I cannot say I have tried but does seem to offer the advantages of avoiding pinch flats with the ease of simply inserting and inflating an inner tube and patch to fix any flats.

I am pretty sure that my knowledge is not extensive, but I would be curious to see how other riders have faired with their chosen wheels and why they made the choice.

This is going to be interesting.

From a guy that doesn't race but rides tubulars, have for 20+ years. I see no compelling reason to switch to clinchers and certainly not tubeless.

I carry a preglued spare, get a flat, put spare on, ride. I have had 2 flats on one ride twice since 1985. I get very few flats. Gluing a tubie on is not hard, messy or time consuming. The only advantage a clincher has is that you can repiar it on the road(some think thatis the number 1 reason to not use tubies).

Tubeless. With few tubeless ready wheels/rims and only 1 tire maker, and no real advantage, I don't see any reason to take that leap. You can make a clincher tubeless with Stans but what a mess. Tubeless on MTBs and for cross racers are a great idea since you can run low, ow pressure and not pinch flat. May wack a rim, may burp air out but no pinch flats. That just doesn't apply to the road. Too bad tubless didn't come to bicycles years and years ago like it did on motorcycles but like some motorcycles with spoked wheels, tubes just make more sense.

So, if you don't want the pain of gluing, don't think the ride, cornering, safety of tubies is worth it, use clinchers. Unless the market 'speaks', I don't think tubeless is going to be any more prevalent than recumbents.

 

[LugHugger]

This is going to be interesting......

From a guy that doesn't race but rides tubulars, have for 20+ years. I see no compelling reason to switch to clinchers and certainly not tubeless.

I carry a preglued spare, get a flat, put spare on, ride.

Pietro, I asked a similar question to gree a few weeks back and you kindly shared your wisdom and experience. I can confirm that my greatest fear about converting to tubs is the stranded scenario.

Could you expand a little on how you deal with this? You mention carrying a pre-glued tyre. How long does the glue on this last? How ofter do you re-glue? If you flat, how do you remove the tub? How long, if at all, do you wait for the glue to set once you've replaced the tyre and continuing?

Excuse my ignorance!

 

[Vegan Dave]

..and, of course, how fun is it to patch a tubular?

For what it's worth, i'm really looking forward to tubeless, just holding out for some more selections of tires. I love the feel of them on the MTB, and with a few years on the road, i'm sure they'll be just as amazing. (I'm most looking forward to more CX options...mmm...12psi...)

As for the tubular/clincher position, i love my clinchers. On the track, i've switched away from tubulars to clinchers, since the tires (Velomax Record's) are just about the smoothest rolling tire out there. If you've ever handled one, you'll know what i mean. Insanely supple....which translates into free speed.

 

[Pietro]

Pietro, I asked a similar question to gree a few weeks back and you kindly shared your wisdom and experience. I can confirm that my greatest fear about converting to tubs is the stranded scenario.

Could you expand a little on how you deal with this? You mention carrying a pre-glued tyre. How long does the glue on this last? How ofter do you re-glue? If you flat, how do you remove the tub? How long, if at all, do you wait for the glue to set once you've replaced the tyre and continuing?

Excuse my ignorance!

I wear out a tire, I use the preglued spare as the next tire(I use a new tire as a spare). The glue is somewhat activated when you put it on the rim, I check it when I get home to make sure it is stuck ok. It is. I never reglue. I ride, wear out a tire, put another on. I get about 2500 miles outta a tire(conti sprinters). I carry a wee metal tire lever to get the ld tire off. Pry it under the tire, pull it off. After putting the tire on, and inflating I ride. The tire doesn't squirm around.

Tubulars are not a black art. They are easy, perform well, are safer than clinchers if you get a flat. Like I said, I have had TWO flats in one ride just twice in 24 years. One was a poorly repaired tubular(yes, I still fix them if they are new and I puncture).

 

[Pietro]

..and, of course, how fun is it to patch a tubular?

For what it's worth, i'm really looking forward to tubeless, just holding out for some more selections of tires. I love the feel of them on the MTB, and with a few years on the road, i'm sure they'll be just as amazing. (I'm most looking forward to more CX options...mmm...12psi...)

As for the tubular/clincher position, i love my clinchers. On the track, i've switched away from tubulars to clinchers, since the tires (Velomax Record's) are just about the smoothest rolling tire out there. If you've ever handled one, you'll know what i mean. Insanely supple....which translates into free speed.

It's not hard to fix a tubular at all. Upper end clinchers do ride well and appraoch the performance of a mid level tubular. I think cross tbeless is a great idea for the same reasons MTB tubless is..LOW pressure, no pinch flats, again, no application to the road. I am surprized that clinchers are allowed on the track since like the road, flat, they most probably will come off the rim, like a poorly glued on tubie, which undoubtedly will cause a crash. I rralize flats on the track are rare tho. If you want insanely supple, get some Challenge silks...

 

[Vegan Dave]

Heya Pietro,

I didn't say it was particulaly *hard* to patch a tubular. My point is that it's not fun. I've done it myself a few times, and it's a chore. The worse is if you have a serious puncture and need to replace the tube..........

As for control when flatting, i've never had any issues, but i'm also very conscious of what can happen and apply very ginger bike handling when i flat.

What's it gonna take to get more CX tubeless tires?!! =)

 

[quadsRme]

clinchers rule, tubulars--get sewing.....

I started with clinchers back in the 70's and quickly switched to tubulars. I loved the sew ups. I switched back to clinchers in the 90's and since I don't race, the clinchers are just great.
Tubulars turn you into a seamstress....http://forum.cyclingnews.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

 

[Pietro]

Heya Pietro,

I didn't say it was particulaly *hard* to patch a tubular. My point is that it's not fun. I've done it myself a few times, and it's a chore. The worse is if you have a serious puncture and need to replace the tube..........

As for control when flatting, i've never had any issues, but i'm also very conscious of what can happen and apply very ginger bike handling when i flat.

What's it gonna take to get more CX tubeless tires?!! =)

I guess YMMV with fixing a tubie. If I have to replace the tube, I just toss it. The problem with cross tubeless is the same problem with road tubeless, lack of tubeless ready wheels and manufacturers are going to be slow to make these and even so, they are expensive. Chicken or the egg? Tire makers waiting for wheel makers to make tubeless. Wheel makers are waiting for tire makers to make tubeless.

I think tubies solve a lot of problems, but there is a LOT of misinformation out there about them, mostly coming from those who have never used them, really know nothing about them.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I think tubies solve a lot of problems, but there is a LOT of misinformation out there about them, mostly coming from those who have never used them, really know nothing about them.

.... and most people that are new to sew-ups are put off by the work it takes to mount and repair them. The fact that 99% of the pros are riding them makes no difference either, because they have mechanics to do all the dirty work. I don't mind the scraping, gluing, stretching, mounting, repairing of tubulars. Since I was brought up on sew-ups, I find the extra work put into caring for them to be sort of meditative and calming, but that could be said for any work I do on the bike.

Tubless technology has been trying to get on the road for over ten years now to no avail. If they were so great as some people claim, the whole peloton would be using them. Fact of the matter is that tubeless tires and rims are heavier than clinchers and tubulars, this is why you only see maybe one or two guys testing them in the pro ranks year after year with no gain in numbers. Tubeless technology was originally created for the MTB scene in an effort to alleviate pinch flats, which is a rare occurrence on the road.

IMHO, on the road, nothing beats the convenience and ease of repair of riding clinchers for training, and the unbelievably plush ride quality at high pressures and safety aspects of tubulars for racing.

 

[Vegan Dave]

A lot of rims can be made tubeless (thanks to Stans), although the rim can be of concern..but yeah, we need the tire manufacturers to step it up! =)

 

[Pietro]

A lot of rims can be made tubeless (thanks to Stans), although the rim can be of concern..but yeah, we need the tire manufacturers to step it up! =)

For cross, good, for road, what a mess. Plus the strip, goop, valve makes the whole package heavy with questionable benefit on a high pressure road tire.

 

[St. Elia]

On a similar topic what about tufos? I mean their tubular clincher. I have used Tubulars in the past and I love them but find it easier to fix all of the flats I get with clinchers. But for a race I might opt for a set of tufos if people like them let me know

 

[Vegan Dave]

From what i've heard, they're simply awful.... Tufo's have some poorly ranked tires in the rolling resistance charts as well..

 

[grimpeur]

I've been riding Hutchinson Fusion2 Road Tubeless tires for two years. There are lots of reasons to switch. 1. Lower rolling resistance that regular clinchers (actually as good as an expensive tubular). 2. No tube to pinch so that the tires can be run at lower more comfortable pressures. 3. Tire will not come off the rim if flatted. 4. At speed, the tires "sing" on the road like tubulars. 5. Hutchinson makes a fluid that self-repairs small 1mm punctures. The other day I got a flat 5 miles from home and rode in on 25psi. Bottom line, they're great. FYI, I rode tubulars for 20 years.

 

[wewallac]

Hutchinson tubless on regular rims

The Hutchinson fusion tubless tires can be mounted on regular rims. I've been using these for months now and absolutely love them. Here's how to put them on and a review


http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/05/hutchinson-fusion-2-tubless-tires-verdict/

 

[Vegan Dave]

Aye, i'm just waiting for more brands to put these out...not the biggest Hutch fan.

 

[42coppi]

I gues I'v elost the art of tubs then.
Raced and rode them 100% in the 60's - took up cycling again in the 90's and racing shortly after.
Got some great HED tub wheels but in Singapore's heat could not really get them to stay stuck. Raced them in Australia and Florida though.
Got one flat and couldnt recall how to fix them ( tut tut ) and no shop I approached would do it - said it was cheaper to buy a new one.
But I still find they don't stay as stuck as I recall they did back then on my wheels.

 

[The GCW]

Tubular flats less common?

I'm hearing people say they don't get many flats on tubulars.

??? Is that correct?

I'm thinking of gettng back to tubulars to lighten up the bike. -Make it illegal... and climb better on mountain passes...

Do they get less flats today than they did back in the '70's?


I rode tubulars for many years in the 1970's with a Raliegh Competition. Clement's mostly. Cotton mostly.

Back then We used tire savers that almost rubbed the tire or just barely rubbed them to keep the sand etc. off the tread and reduce flats.

I've gotten flats every which way on both clinchers and tubulars. Sewn and stitched tubulars on the road many times...

When riding with a clincher, I carry a tube. With tubular riding You must carry a tubular tire. So riding with a clincher in the end is lighter.

70g. / 230g.

Do people still use tire savers? I haven't seen them in decades.

 

[Pietro]

I'm hearing people say they don't get many flats on tubulars.

??? Is that correct?

I'm thinking of gettng back to tubulars to lighten up the bike. -Make it illegal... and climb better on mountain passes...

Do they get less flats today than they did back in the '70's?


I rode tubulars for many years in the 1970's with a Raliegh Competition. Clement's mostly. Cotton mostly.

Back then We used tire savers that almost rubbed the tire or just barely rubbed them to keep the sand etc. off the tread and reduce flats.

I've gotten flats every which way on both clinchers and tubulars. Sewn and stitched tubulars on the road many times...

When riding with a clincher, I carry a tube. With tubular riding You must carry a tubular tire. So riding with a clincher in the end is lighter.

70g. / 230g.

Do people still use tire savers? I haven't seen them in decades.

Nope, don't use tire savers and ride tubies eveyday(don't race). I get very few punctures, maybe 1 or 2 in 8000 miles of riding per year. I use Conti Sprinters, nice, durable tire.

Do ya think saving 160 GRAMS is going to make you ride better on mountain passes?

A little review on why tubulars are a good idea.

Rounder, corner better.
More comfy ride, no need to inflate to 120 psi).
All else being equal, LESS punctures since no pinch flats.
Safer, if ya flat, tire doesn't come off the rim.

NOT 'lower RR', NOT because the 'package 'may' be a little lighter.

'Illegal' only applies if you are racing a UCI race, BTW.

Reality please. Saving a few grams off the bike pales in comparison to the things that make a bike and rider 'package' perform better. Like bike Fit, Fitness, Fat(lack thereof on you), and Finesse-riding and racing smart. The bike is only there to get you there....

 

[The GCW]

Pietro,

Thanks for the thoughts,

To answer,

"Do ya think saving 160 GRAMS is going to make you ride better on mountain passes?"

It couldn't hurt...

But:

I'm thinking that switching to tubulars though will save more like 400 grams or .9 lb.

Plus the 7900 chain, replacing the worn 7800 chain (etc.) will bring it closer to a pound of savings.

 

[Pietro]

Thanks for the thoughts,

To answer,

"Do ya think saving 160 GRAMS is going to make you ride better on mountain passes?"

It couldn't hurt...

But:

I'm thinking that switching to tubulars though will save more like 400 grams or .9 lb.

Plus the 7900 chain, replacing the worn 7800 chain (etc.) will bring it closer to a pound of savings.

It couldn't hurt but it may not get you up the hill any faster either. No absolutes when a person is the motor. You can make big generalities but the 'save 20 seconds per mile' stuff is bugleoil.

Saving a pound 'may' get you up there faster but unless you are currently at 3-4% body fat, lose it off you, not the bike.

But if your exercise to see how light the bike is..go ahead, it's your $. I ride tubulars because I see no compelling reason to switch, not because of what they weigh.

 

[grimpeur]

Aye, i'm just waiting for more brands to put these out...not the biggest Hutch fan.

Just a note about Hutchinson, most folks don't know that the company was formed by an American in France in the mid 1800s. I think they produced their first bicycle tire in about 1890. Many pros including Anquetil and Lance Armstrong claimed all their Tour de France victories on Hutchinson tires.

 

[Pietro]

Just a note about Hutchinson, most folks don't know that the company was formed by an American in France in the mid 1800s. I think they produced their first bicycle tire in about 1890. Many pros including Anquetil and Lance Armstrong claimed all their Tour de France victories on Hutchinson tires.

Pretty easy when they are free. No really 'bad' tires these days, either on the WE warrior's bici or in the professional peloton in europe. Technology run amok with tubeless tho. If it weren't for the requirement to have tubeless specific wheels(no goop/rubber strips, etc, please) it may be a good idea but should have happened about the same time it happened for motorcycles(even some of those still use tubes).

10 years on and only one company with one model of road tubeless tire. Don't see it becoming mainstream. Hasn't in MTB..won't on the road.