When did brake levers start creeping up the handlebar?

[Zigster]

When did pros start angling up their shifters so that they now look like your dad's bike?

1992

2009

2015 (depiction)

 

[winkybiker]

I actually have no clue, but it really does look ridiculous. Shimano shifters in particular went through a phase of gigantic priapism from which they have never really recovered. Campy have always been more modest.

 

[kingjr]

I've been wondering that for years now, I think it started in the early 2000s, around 2003, 2004 to be more precise.

 

[Benotti69]

Max Sciandri rode with the levers higher, but i remember Armstrong rode similar high levers in 1999 TdF and it probably caught on from then........

But that Pinarello, who rode that? Looks like the handlebar stem was not tightened..

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

I don't think they're moving the brake, I think they're mis-positioning the h-bar. Bars traditionally were positioned with the hooks near horizontal to the ground, as is the case in the Pinarello pictured, where the disciplined rider best can manipulate them from a good, tight tuck. If your tuck is sloppy or you are sitting bolt upright, the mispositioned bars are more comfortable.

Measuring qwik-n-dirty off the pics on he screen, I'd put the difference at 20-25°.

 

[richwagmn]

I don't think they're moving the brake, I think they're mis-positioning the h-bar. Bars traditionally were positioned with the hooks near horizontal to the ground, as is the case in the Pinarello pictured, where the disciplined rider best can manipulate them from a good, tight tuck. If your tuck is sloppy or you are sitting bolt upright, the mispositioned bars are more comfortable.

Measuring qwik-n-dirty off the pics on he screen, I'd put the difference at 20-25°.

Oh poppycock. Yes, traditional bend bars were positioned that way. But many pros are now riding variable radius bars. You can't position that bar so that it's bottom is parallel with the ground and have it be useful.

Also, many bars have a flat area on the top before they curve downwards. Positioning the brake hood so that it extends this area gives a wide area of support for a rider's hands.

 

[richwagmn]

When did pros start angling up their shifters so that they now look like your dad's bike?

1992

2009

2015 (depiction)

One thing to notice is the amount of saddle to bar drop on the pinarello. The rider on that bike is probably stretched about as far as they can go. Angling up the bars compensates for this.

If you look at the bikes of Lemond for instance, he didn't ride nearly has much drop as some of the current riders.

Maybe it's time to rethink some of the basic geometry of today's bike frames.

 

[42x16ss]

I was thinking the same thing, the stem on the sky pinarello is much lower than it is on the Banesto one (which looks like Indurain's - which could explain a bit too). Also the head tube is longer and steeper on the Banesto bike. One more thing, the sky bike isn't quite level in the pic, the front end is lower, exaggerating the position, look at the wheels.

 

[nepetalactone]

Maybe with the release of the 7800 dura ace series? The hoods were fatter an extended out a bit farther than 7700 and before. I found it to be much more comfortable with the levers a bit higher than on previous generations. 2003 then.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Maybe with the release of the 7800 dura ace series? The hoods were fatter an extended out a bit farther than 7700 and before. I found it to be much more comfortable with the levers a bit higher than on previous generations. 2003 then.

Lots of carbon frames also, with wee, short headtubes...

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.steephill.tv/2014/paris-roubaix/photos/page-02/#124211_PIC451334346.jpg

Cancs upped his levers

 

[winkybiker]

Although they look stupid, angled-up hoods are actually quite comfortable. They mean the drops are now further down and away (relatively speaking) so the difference between hoods and drops is greater. Good, bad or just different?

But I'd never ride with the hoods sticking up because it just looks dumb (and reminds me of a certain arrogant texan, whom I would rather forget). I'd also never ride with my stem upside down.

 

[winkybiker]

http://www.steephill.tv/2014/paris-roubaix/photos/page-02/#124211_PIC451334346.jpg

Cancs upped his levers

Ouch. No, wait - that image must be 'shopped.

 

[hiero2]

Those cobbles are lovely, aren't they! ...........

thuddada thudada thuddada thuddada..................

Excepting American - how can I say it - there were a couple of categories or American bikes where levers went up - way up - or were completely disconnected. But outside of them, handlebar design underwent it's first changes in almost half a century in the late 80's, early 90's. The change in FUNCTION of brake levers followed shortly after. Those changes marked some change in the positions of the hoods - for real.

But mostly, your poll shoulda been posted on April 1, right?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Although they look stupid, angled-up hoods are actually quite comfortable. They mean the drops are now further down and away (relatively speaking) so the difference between hoods and drops is greater. Good, bad or just different?

That's a poor man's way to comfort. If the rider is moving the levers back it's a clue she/he is too stretched.

Shorten the stem, go for a shallower bend if possible and get the levers in a position the palm sits easily on the bar. That will put the tip of the brake lever just about even with the bottom of the drop and the drop will be technically parallel with the ground. I realize some modern bars don't really set-up like a traditional curve, so it's not a firm thing.

Not sure where the shallow bends came from, but those are a pet peeve of mine and defeat the purpose of the drop as pictured on the Banesto bike.

 

[max_powers]

Maybe with the release of the 7800 dura ace series? The hoods were fatter an extended out a bit farther than 7700 and before. I found it to be much more comfortable with the levers a bit higher than on previous generations. 2003 then.

this is the correct answer. the brake levers were too extended at the 'old' mounting position

 

[elapid]

http://www.steephill.tv/2014/paris-roubaix/photos/page-02/#124211_PIC451334346.jpg

Cancs upped his levers

Here are some others from the 2014 P-R gallery:

Vansummeren:

Paolini:

Pozzato:

 

[42x16ss]

Looking at those photos, I'd say the hoods are moved backwards because the riders are using ridiculous amounts of drop and possibly too long a stem.

Most of the riders shown could run a more conventional setup, with the same position by taking 20mm off the stem, running a 5mm spacer and shifting the hoods forward. The only reason I can see for these setups is that the handling may be unstable with a shorter stem...

 

[Hawkwood]

Looking at those photos, I'd say the hoods are moved backwards because the riders are using ridiculous amounts of drop and possibly too long a stem.

Most of the riders shown could run a more conventional setup, with the same position by taking 20mm off the stem, running a 5mm spacer and shifting the hoods forward. The only reason I can see for these setups is that the handling may be unstable with a shorter stem...

There's a pro from the 70s-80s, I think it's Henk Lubberding, who's written criticising the whole `slam that stem' debate. It seems to me that the difference between the eras is that riders such as Merckx and De Vlaeminck got very low on their bikes (both very very flexible), by bending their elbows, while now the riders get low with straight elbows, but much lower stems.

 

[Benotti69]

There's a pro from the 70s-80s, I think it's Henk Lubberding, who's written criticising the whole `slam that stem' debate. It seems to me that the difference between the eras is that riders such as Merckx and De Vlaeminck got very low on their bikes (both very very flexible), by bending their elbows, while now the riders get low with straight elbows, but much lower stems.

Yep. Pros pre carbon never slammed their stems. Makes me wonder why are manufacturers making carbon frames without any input from pros. Just look a Garmin and the angle of their stems, seems stupid.

Do pros need to get that low when they spend most of their time sheltered in a bunch! The rise of brake levers seems to be to compensate.

 

[purcell]

Around 2000 is when it started in earnest.

Coincidentally about the time that 3 size fits all carbon frames starting popping out of the molds and the marketing people started with the nonsense that if you play with seatpin so and stems anyone can fit any frame.

Head tubes are too short for the frame sizes, pros are generally riding a size too small for extra "stiffness" and lighter weight so drops are about 3 1/2 feet.

Rotate the hoods up to keep people from falling off the bikes and of course the weekend duffers rushed to copy the look.

Bikes have become pretty much hideous to look at. Fitting is a joke now-a-days.

 

[winkybiker]

Around 2000 is when it started in earnest.

Coincidentally about the time that 3 size fits all carbon frames starting popping out of the molds and the marketing people started with the nonsense that if you play with seatpin so and stems anyone can fit any frame.

Head tubes are too short for the frame sizes, pros are generally riding a size too small for extra "stiffness" and lighter weight so drops are about 3 1/2 feet.

Rotate the hoods up to keep people from falling off the bikes and of course the weekend duffers rushed to copy the look.

Bikes have become pretty much hideous to look at. Fitting is a joke now-a-days.

Pros are riding small frames because the head tubes are too long. They compensate for the short reach by using long stems, but rarely use much on the way of spacers, and I've never seen an upside-down stem pointing up on a pro bike.

For the rest of us, head-tubes can be OK. I run an almost flat 120mm stem and no spacers on my C59 which gives me a perfect fit without angled-up hoods. Nothing extreme.

Head tubes can be too short for those with less flexibility leading to angled-up stems and truckloads of spacers, as well as angled-up hoods and drops that are never used. Ironically, the most spacers and most severely angled-up stems and hoods seem to be on the "comfort/fondo" frames that also have the longest head-tubes.

 

[Hawkwood]

Pros are riding small frames because the head tubes are too long. They compensate for the short reach by using long stems, but rarely use much on the way of spacers, and I've never seen an upside-down stem pointing up on a pro bike.

For the rest of us, head-tubes can be OK. I run an almost flat 120mm stem and no spacers on my C59 which gives me a perfect fit without angled-up hoods. Nothing extreme.

Head tubes can be too short for those with less flexibility leading to angled-up stems and truckloads of spacers, as well as angled-up hoods and drops that are never used. Ironically, the most spacers and most severely angled-up stems and hoods seem to be on the "comfort/fondo" frames that also have the longest head-tubes.

I read your post and thought I'd do some measuring. I've been riding road bikes since 1975, and up to the mid to late 90s sizing, give or take the odd degree of angle, was pretty standard. I've always ridden 590mm centre to centre frames, XL or XXL in today's sizes. In the early 2000s I bought my first compact frame, built it up, and went for a ride. I couldn't work out why everything felt wrong and I couldn't get comfortable on the drops. When I got back home I did some measuring. The new frame had a head-tube length of 190mm, the same as the 1995 Bianchi I'd been riding, and close to the 180mm of the early 1990s Merckx I had (both 590mm centre to centre). However there was one big difference, the Bianchi and Merckx both had 50mm of headset to add to that, while the new frame had an integrated headset that added around 5mm. So in the case of the Bianchi I'd lost 45mm of stack (I'm making an assumption that the angles, bottom bracket height etc were about the same which they were). The only way that I could get a similar position on the new frame to that on the old, was to get a pair of forks with an extra long steerer, and use loads of spacers. I should add that the Merckx and Bianchi frames had classic racing geometry, and of course were designed for quill stems, plus I used deep drop bars. I also should add that I could get into a low, comfortable tuck on the Bianchi, and on a 0.5 km hill near me, could hit 80km + after just 250 metres.

It seems to me that when manufacturers set out to design compact frames they used the same or similar head-tube lengths as on the old style frames, but didn't take into account the loss of 45mm or more of headset (possibly because integrated headsets didn't come in straightaway). I suppose the assumption was that people could use spacers and flip stems. As for the Pros, the hoods are the new drops, and the brake/gear levers are optimised to be used from this position. There's a photo of Cancellara sprinting on the hoods, and one of the bikes photographed at Paris-Roubaix had its bars angled such that the drops would be difficult to use. Now when pros use the drops their elbows are often more or less locked, something we were told not to do back in the olden days.

So in order to get a frame that fits me I have to go down the `endurance'/`comfort' route, and that's to get me into the position that I raced in 15 years ago. The `endurance' Merida that I ride currently has a`massive' 240mm long head-tube, but can still give me a 137mm saddle to bar drop, if I should so wish, just by taking out spacers and using a different stem.

So to sum up this rather long essay I think the `endurance' or `comfort' frames of today, are similar in geometry to the `pro' geometry frames of the 70s, 80s and 90s, but what has changed is the routine use of the hoods rather than the drops, leading to the `slam that stem' fashion in order to get low.

 

[Volderke]

Hood design changed favorite rider position from drop to the hoods.

Nowadays, positions are more optimized for hands on the hoods. In order not have have too much drop, lots of riders opt for Italian / compact bars (and not Belgian style anymore). That is why the head tubes need to be smaller for the pro riders.

When the hoods were less ergonomic, pro's had optimized position to sit in the drops.

So in the end, the most-used position of the pro riders is not much different from 20-30 years ago, but they will now sit a little deeper in the drops, and they used to sit a little higher on the hoods.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Team Sky rider has an unusual but effective bar setup

...The cockpit setup is unusual, too, with radically upturned bars but lever hoods that are nominally level with the ground....

The handlebars are radically upturned but it certainly seemed to work for Bradley Wiggins (Sky)



Wiggo might be the most notable or extreme but the certainly isn't alone.