ianfra said:
This sub-forum is for discussing 'doping issues' - agreed.
I did not think it was for making accusations without foundation, or showing people that you can really add 2 + 2 and make 5.
Discussion and bigotted accusations are two different things.
You have not addressed your time as a journalist during the time of Simpsons death from doping. Did you ask the difficult questions of his peugeot team? Can you link or scan some of the articles that you wrote about doping back then in your job as a cycling journalist for cycling weekly?
ianfra said:
I stick around because, hey, someone has to stick up for the innocent.
You are following the wrong sport.
ianfra said:
Incidentally, I do not understand what 'trolling' means. That's not part of my language. Throughout this sub-forum I have said what I honestly feel and I have spoken from my heart. Some people here do not like that and many points I have made have not been addressed - I just get name called et etc etc.
When you call someone using 2 doctors with doping reputations innocent, you are not going to be taken seriously. This is pro cycling, not U12s club racing.
ianfra said:
Because what I have discovered is that people here can insult whomever they want in pro cycling but people who have honest heartfelt opinions and express them strongly get banned for 'insulting' other posters.
Use the report function if you feel you are being insulted as insults are againt the rules.
ianfra said:
That is as unfair and unjust as citing pro riders for doping when there is not a shred of evidence produced to back up these allegations.
In journalistic circles working with doctors who have a history of doping in pro cycling is very much considered evidence. There have been 2 articles in UK national newspapers asking TeamSky to explain why they are using Geert Leinders. That is journalism.
ianfra said:
Listen, I've been around this sport for 52 years and I think I know what's what. So I'm not some bright eyed newbie who thinks the world is a bed of roses. In my head I know who I suspect and who I utterly believe is clean. I will say on this forum that Sky is clean but I won't name those I suspect to be doping because it is just personal feeling with no evidence.
So you have your suspicions but wont name them, unlike others calling out what they see as doping performances with the knowledge that Sky are using Geert Leinders. This is done because it is a forum not a publication. The clinic is not judge and jury. It is comparable to the corner of the pub where like minded people discuss the doping side of the sport. No one is obliged to join in the discussion and people do so at their own will and people may leave of their own accord.
ianfra said:
I wouldn't be that unjust. I also think the various insults against Wiggins and Sky actually goes 100% against their human rights, goes 100% against justice and goes 100% against democracy. That's not the way we should do things and I wish, oh wish, that some of you could be forced to make these statements in a court of law.
Unjust??? Unjust is telling the fans lies, lies and more damned lies. The clinic loves the sport but is tired of the lies. Sky lied.
The Clinic is not about human rights, justice or democracy although by your very ability to be here and post your opinions you have been shown more democracy then Sky have allowed.
The Clinic is not a court of law and never pretended to be anything other than a sub forum in a cycling website that discusses the doping in the sport.
You should be asking Sky about their doctors and not asking us to believe that because you have 52 years knowledge of the sport (and all the doping down the years now go against everything you know and believe in Sky being clean.
52 years
Anquetil in 1965 "Leave me in peace; everybody takes dope."
Simpson in 1967 'amphetamines and alcohol, a diuretic combination which proved fatal'
Merckx in 1969 'tested positive for the stimulant Reactivan at Savona'
Joaquim Agostinho in 1969 of Portugal tested positive in the Tour of Portugal
Merckx in 1973 tested positive for a banned substance in the Giro di Lombardia classic
Roger Legeay in 1974 of France tested positive for amphetamines at the Paris - Nice race
Bernard Thévenet in 1975 won the Tour de France by using cortisone.
Joop Zoetemelk in 1977 tested positive for Pemoline in the 1977 Tour de France
Michel Pollentier in 1978 was caught trying to cheat the drugs control with someone else's urine Tour De France
Giovanni Battaglin in 1979 tested positive for doping in stage 13 Tour De France
Freddy Maertens in 1980 admitted to the French newspaper L'Équipe, after his retirement, that "like everyone else", he had used amphetamines.
Ángel Arroyo in 1982, received a penalty for testing positive for the stimulant Methylphenidate (Ritalin) on stage 17 of the 1982 Vuelta a España.
Adri van der Poel in 1983 Dutch world cyclocross champion and Tour de France stage winner tested positive for strychnine.
Francesco Moser in 1984 broke the hour record of Eddy Merckx. In 1999, he admitted blood doping to prepare for the attempt, helped by sports doctor Francesco Conconi. Such doping had not been declared illegal at the time.
Kim Andersen in 1987 tested positive for doping.
Pedro Delgado in 1988 tested positive for probenecid at the Tour de France
Laurent Fignon in 1989 tested positive for amphetamines at the Grand Prix de la Liberation in Eindhoven on 17 September
Sean Yates(Team Sky DS) in 1989 tested positive in the first stage of Torhout-Werchter
The PDM team in 1991 all sick from doping 10th stage Tour De France
Claudio Chiappucci confessed in 1997 that he had used drugs from
1993–1995
Bo Hamburger from Denmark admitted taking EPO from
1995–1997
Marco Pantani in 1995 recorded a haematocrit level of 60.1%
Bjarne Riis won the 1996 Tour de France under the effects of EPO, growth hormone and cortisone.
Djamolidine Abdoujaparov in 1997 became the first rider to be disqualified from the 1997 Tour de France for taking banned substances after testing positive for Bromantan
1998 Festina affair
Lance Armstrong in 1999 tested positive for corticoids during the Tour de France
We can go on and on and on and on..........
50 years of doping. How man times during those 50 years have those in charge of the sport said they had cleaned it up? Too many. Too many times we are lied too.
Time the teams and riders stop lying and show the fans that they wont have anything to with doping, doping doctors, doping DS, ex dopers etc etc...
Wiggins is as clean as those on this list. That he works with 2 doping doctors and a DS that tested positive in his career as a rider and then subsequently worked for USPS and Discovery mark him as a doping enabler.
This is the evidence that the clinic is discussing. You dont like it dont click in here.