When to Retire from the Pro Peloton?

[joe_papp]

Earlier this week, while talking to a friend who is on the inside of Landisgate, he said to me that he thought the biggest mistake Lance Armstrong made was coming out of retirement to return to competition. Why it was a mistake is a complicated and multifaceted answer, but I wholeheartedly agreed with him. And if what Floyd Landis alleges is true, Armstrong's decision to return to competition seems even more reckless, foolhardy and egotistical. After all, to have won seven Tours de France whilst engaged in the alleged most sophisticated yet brazen doping program in the history of the sport - without getting caught (despite several close calls) - it's impressive. But Lance couldn't stay out of the sport and it may be his undoing.

I think few sportsmen are capable of making the decision to retire while "still on top" and as a result they prolong their careers into a phase where their reputation and legacy are jeopardized. They continue to be evaluated based on results when their organisms are no longer capable of producing winning performances (the exception of course being those athletes like Barry Bonds who dope so much in later years that they become science projects and freaks more than elder statesmen of sport).

But when should a rider retire? What drives someone to continue past their sell-by date, yet without a change in outlook/goals to reflect their decaying talents?

Seeing Simoni get spanked for the Cima Coppi during today's Giro stage got me thinking about this. Little effort was required to reflect on Robbie McEwen, the once-great sprinter who has been reduced to a shell of his former self - the result of a horrific crash that should have been career-ending.

I'm sure we can all cite countless other examples of riders who persisted on past the time when they should have retired, or at least radically shifted their performance goals and become more mentor to up-and-coming riders than the rider whose team depended on him for a win. Even Zabel fell into this trap.

Thoughts? Who's still racing now who should have stopped? Most egregious example of riders continuing when they should really have taken that PR job? On the flip side, who did the right thing (a la Lance after the 2005 Tour) and stopped before their bones started creaking during routine training rides? And what of the teams that continue to employ old talent? Do they expect their veteran charges to - continue charging?

So many questions...

 

[ergmonkey]

I enjoyed following Zabel's career right to the very end. I agree with you that it's important for an athlete to be realistic about his or her present abilities. But, when guys like Zabel and Petacchi talk about finishing off their careers as leadout men for faster, younger talent, I think it says a lot about their love for their sport and their respect for fellow competitors.

I also like what Servais Knaven has done as a road captain at Milram for the past two seasons. So, while a rider who's several years past his peak shouldn't continue to strive for his old glory days, I would not be in favor of seeing riders leave the game as soon as they're no longer at their very best, either. Those who are willing to evolve and play other team roles may still offer a lot to their teams and to the sport.

That being said, George Hincapie should probably stop trying to win Paris-Roubaix, though.

 

[MarkGreen0]

Well, if you stay on after your peak it shows that you have love for the sport and are willing to get beaten, and some fans like that spirit. That's why Armstrong had more fans at the side of the road last year than when he seemed unbeatable in his glory days.

If it's a great rider then just to see them still riding in the peloton is something special in my view - even if they're not close to winning. Obviously there is a point where they don't want to get too humiliated, but Armstrong wasn't close to that last year. We're have to wait and see how it will pan out this year.

 

[MarkGreen0]

It is interesting why LA came back. I think he didn't like the image that he left behind and wanted to do it in a different way without all the arrogance and grudges, and perhaps without that other stuff. I don't think he's been successful at all of those things, though he has been more open than he's ever been before.

Being away from the heat of competition for so long, and being used to answering friendly questions from Hollywood type reporters, it must have made it seem easy to take that friendlier attitude back to the sport. But it only took a bit of reporting on him getting dropped at the Giro and suddenly he was his old self. It's been a lot harder for him than he thought.

 

[beroepsrenner]

Very interesting topic Joe. McEwen is the most obvious offender and I see Leif Hoste in the same boat. There are probably many more if think about it. I think the biggest motivater for Armstrong is a giant ego and a lack of a definite plan for the rest of his life's journey. As you and I have discussed, your racing carreer is only a chapter in your life that, unfortunately, many guys are unable to move on from. In the case of low end dometiques, the end of your carreer means getting a real job and settling into a normal lifestyle again. On the other end of the spectrum, if you've made good money from racing, you can use it to set up some kind of business to carry you into the next phase of your life. The real problem is that many guys who are successful athletes often have no education or have never looked far enough ahead in their lives to understand the bigger picture. So they keep racing until they end up making a joke of themselves. Somebody once said to me that you are only ever remembered by your last performance.

 

[benpounder]

Who's still [competing] now who should have stopped?

Different sport, but I'd suggest that John Elway's walking away from his sport (American Football) is the epitome of champion grace. Pity LA missed that lesson.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

This phenomenon happens across almost all sports. Michael Jordan retired twice and came back, the last time as an above average player on a below average team. Muhammad Ali fought way longer than he should have, and it reflected on his health more than reputation. Mickey Mantle played baseball so long his per-season stats took a real slip. Diego Maradona didn't know when to give up after many downfalls. Most NFL players quit when forced out or injured out. Even Jerry Rice and Emmet Smith's careers started to slide when they gave in.

In cycling, Saul Raisin comes to mind, though mostly injury related. Maybe Greame Orbee (though he contemplated a one-time comeback last year). One could argue Bernard Hinault quit at the right time. In US cycling Scott Moninger could have raced another year or two, maybe. And he won a stupid amount of races. Same with JaJa. I just don't think either wanted to go out like Robbie is. Jiminez career ended way early. But not because he retired, really.

Cycling numbers are somewhat askew though, for example. Giles Delion retired at 27. But did so because he didn't want to dope in the height of the EPO era. Riders like Aitor González "retired" at 30, Oscar Camenzid at 31, or Roberto Heras at 32, but because of doping violations.

In other sports, the names that comes to mind who did retire on top are John Elway (back to back SB wins his last two seasons), Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Pat Tillman (war), Bobby Orr, Eric Lindros, Bjorn Borg, Martina Hingis and Dale Murphy. Boxing fans may argue Marvin Hagler went out on top as well. Sandy Koufax & Bo Jackson are two big names retired early to injury. Several others have died in their prime as well, of course (Thurman Munson, Salvador Sanchez, etc.)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Ben beat me to it with Elway.

 

[luckyboy]

I would say that it's ok to keep on going. The mentoring role/going to a smaller team would sound good if you wanted to keep going til 38.

Someone mentioned Hoste - he's only 32!

 

[beroepsrenner]

I would say that it's ok to keep on going. The mentoring role/going to a smaller team would sound good if you wanted to keep going til 38.

Someone mentioned Hoste - he's only 32!

A particular age has nothing to do with it. Hinaut was only 32 when he retired. Australia's track great, Danny Clark, was still competative in six day racing into his 40s. Its about the "fire in the belly". Even though you may still have the physical ability to keep on going, if you've lost the drive to win at all costs then you may have crossed over your mental peak, especially if you have family and other influences in your life. While it maybe possible for you to go the pace while in this mental stage of your life, to actually play a role at the pointy end of the peloton is another story.
At the age of 31, after retiring from fulltime racing, I was able to compete and finish Australia's Sun Tour while working a fulltime job but not being even able to contest stage finishes made me realise it was time to call it quits and focus on family and other business.
The stress placed on families by pro cycling is often overlooked by the fans of the sport due to the selfish focus and sheer time involved. If you are not moving foward but indeed going backwards in the results then its time to face facts and give some time back to your family.

 

[saganftw]

you retire when you feel like its time to retire,its not age related,its not even related to your succes,some athletes just enjoy sport...and you can change your opinion and comeback if you want as many times as you want (favre watch ftw )

 

[dsut4392]

Simoni would have to be a prime example after yesterday's Giro stage. The outrage from some fans when he wasn't gifted the Cima Coppi is just silly.
If he were some long serving domestique with little to show for years of busting his ba11s I might feel differently, but who wants a symbolic 'victory' like that on an already storied palmares?
I like Simoni, but if he's racing, he shouldn't be expecting handouts (and seeing his interview on the last climb, I think he understands this better than some of the tifosi).
If the Giro want to give him a gift, get the guy up on stage and present him with an honorarium for lifetime achievement, but don't patronise the guy by pretending he won it with his performance this year.

 

[beroepsrenner]

you retire when you feel like its time to retire,its not age related,its not even related to your succes,some athletes just enjoy sport...and you can change your opinion and comeback if you want as many times as you want (favre watch ftw )

Yes, you are right, but there is definitely an appropiate time to step down from elite level. If you have passed your peak as far as winning at this level is concerned then its time to step back to a lower category if you want to keep racing. You are only blocking the path for new talent. You can still enjoy racing without the time and pressure. Many pros in this situation are in denial and try to continue on desperately using whatever means they can to stay in the pro peloton just because their egos wont let them go. Every individual is different and i know many pros who have retired and come back, some successfully and some not so. I also know of guys who have known exactly when to stop and have gone on to successful business careers whithout any regrets.

 

[joe_papp]

Great discussion, guys - thanks for bringing in all the examples from sport outside of cycling.

I agree that age as a numerical value shouldn't have any bearing on when to retire - it should be based on performance or the value you can bring to an organization. I hadn't considered the fact that Zabel took on more of a road captain's role during those last three seasons, and to good effect. That said, I worry rolleyes about his former teammate, Ale-Jet, who seems to be on the cusp of a rapid decline in potency (or perhaps already in free-fall).

While it was endearing to see him grind-out two stages of the Giro last year, the way he struggled just to finish 3rd in Milan-San Remo in March was disheartening to watch (especially in contrast to an up-and-coming star like Farrar). Petacchi v.2010 is a far cry v.2003 or even the 2005 version with his four Giro stage wins. That positive test for salbutamol in 2007 seemed to derail his career, and there have been few results of note since then.

Can Petacchi pull a Zabel and bank a few more years on the ProTour? Does he even want to? I seem to remember hearing that he was caught up in that tax-evasion scandal, so maybe he won't have a choice and will need to continue racing for the foreseeable future to pay his debts.

Anyone want to guess how many years Vino has left (feel free to consider the risk of a second doping positive )??? He acquitted himself well in this year's Giro - taking pink was impressive and he was a major animator of the race. He has enough talent that he should be competitive as a one-day rider for at least another season - can the same be said of Sastre with regards to stage racing?

 

[benpounder]

In other sports, the names that comes to mind who did retire on top...

I may have beat you to it, but your list was quite comprehensive. Another name that I'd add is Raymond Bourque. After a lifetime with the Boston Bruins, Ray decided to sell his talent to a team with a shot at the hockey championship. After a season and a half in Colorado, he forever skated off the ice with Lord Stanley's "mug" held overhead.

 

[benpounder]

Erik Zabel, one of my cycling heros, is an anomoly. Yes he remained in the pro peleton too long, but only too long if your metric is winning. He has inspired (and still does) legions of sprinters and points classification riders. His passion for, and devotion to cycling is indisputable.

So while he may have remained in the pro peleton too long, his impact upon, and stature within the cycling world have not suffered. (His earnest admission and apology about doping is an added bonus in my mind.)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Paolo Bettini somewhat went out on top. He won the Worlds in 2007, and raced okay in 2008, winning two stages at the Vuelta before retiring at the end of the season. Though he was somewhat pushed out because of a contract dispute, and did race on the track in winter, where he crashed, pushing him completely into retirement.

 

[Jancouver]

Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa)
Cadel Evans (Aus)
Lance Armstrong (USA)
Andreas Klöden (Ger)
Levi Leipheimer (USA)
Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr)
Stuart O'Grady (Aus)
Jens Voigt (Ger)
Denis Menchov (Rus)
Juan Antonio Flecha Giannoni (Spa)
Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa)
Christian Vande Velde (USA)
Julian Dean (NZl)
David Millar (GBr)
David Zabriskie (USA)
George Hincapie (USA)
Kim Kirchen (Lux)
Ivan Basso (Ita)
Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa)
Marzio Bruseghin (Ita)
Sylvain Chavanel (Fra)
Tom Boonen (Bel)
Stijn Devolder (Bel)
Christophe Moreau (Fra)
Robbie Mcewen (Aus)
Robert Hunter (RSA)

 

[spanky wanderlust]

you guys make the la comeback too complicated. you only need to ask yourself: how much has he pocketed in the last two seasons? it's gotta be a lot!

as for the others, yes, elway is a model, but he was about armstrong's age when he went out, iirc. brett favre is the opposite of the right way to do it. michael jordan too. jerry rice is somewhere in between.

as for age, i like watching the seasoned pros in any sport shred the youngsters. vino is a classic example of a guy who is beyond his years but still at a very high level. so, for most people i'd say early thirtiesish is appropriate to retire from pro sports (more evidence that golf is NOT a sport), and if you are a badass you can last a few extra years.

 

[dolophonic]

Good topic.
Some guys should not retire...http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/halfords-tour-series-2-durham-ne/results

 

[brianf7]

McEwan is not going any where untill after the worlds in Geelong he is enjoying him self too much.

 

[RedheadDane]

Jens Voigt (Ger)

Voigt might be old... but for someone his age he's doing really fine, also experience is rather important in a team!
In an interview during last years Tour he joked that he'd probably keep racing until someone more or less dragged him off the bike, telling him he'd gotten grey hairs...
He also said that the Tour last year probably would be his last, but after his crash he has stated that he really doesn't wanna end his last Tour like that... so, my guess is that this Tour will be his last (barring accidents...) and then he might focus on smaller races for a couple of years!
Then maybe he can get a behind-the-scene job at the team!

 

[ingsve]

The thing to remember is that cycling is not only a sport but also a job for most of the pro riders. And often it's all they know to do. So if they can still get a paycheck and go some good for the team then why on earth should they retire? Not everyone has other careers just waiting for them so that they can safely retire. Cycling is not a young man's sport at least not compared to other sports. Unless someone has problems with motivation or injuries or whatever then there really is no need to even think about retirement before the age of 35. And no matter how old you get, most riders still feel that they have that one last great race still left in them.

Even if a top rider is passed his prime results wise the experience is invaluable to a team. Just look at the trouble Sky got themselves into when they lost their road captain in Qatar. And a team like Cervélo would be alot worse in the classics without an experienced guy like Klier there who knows all the roads like the back of his hand and can direct the other riders with his experience.

 

[RedheadDane]

The thing to remember is that cycling is not only a sport but also a job for most of the pro riders. And often it's all they know to do. So if they can still get a paycheck and go some good for the team then why on earth should they retire?

Exactly! Tony Martin is a policeman and Laurent Didier is a qualified engineer, I'd say those two are the exception rather than the rule!
Just think of how many former riders continue with a bike-related occupation...

 

[9000ft]

Goop topic with a lot of good input. When I look at it I see two different things. The high profile guys who are at the top and the other 90%. For the 90% I'll guess they don't have near the financial options that the top 10% do. While things like a love of the sport, feeding on the competition, etc might be the same throughout the peloton, a lot of guys might just need to keep the steady paycheck. For those guys, since they labor in realitive obscurity anyway a slip in results isn't as big a deal as if an LA, or Sastre' or Zabel, et al start slipping down the standings.