Where will history place.....

[Echoes]

Think were getting our wires crossed and arguing about a subject we probably agree more than disagree on?

WRT Simpson & Goddet, I think drug testing was being pushed already and Simpson's death forced the Tour to be seen to do something.

OK Fine !


Gonna have to start a thread about Simpson because so many lies have been told surrounded his death and I feel strongly about it.

Dopers before the EPO era weren't any better than dopers from the 90s, ethically speaking.[...]

(I figure we're going a bit too far with the Clinic talk here. Maybe a split would be a good idea?)

It ain't that easy. Merckx was stripped off a win in Lombardy because he treated a bronchitis with syrup. Unethical?

And I'm against the splitting of the thread. We can't discuss the historical "greatness" of a "champion" and overlook the doping matter.

 

[hrotha]

It ain't that easy. Merckx was stripped off a win in Lombardy because he treated a bronchitis with syrup. Unethical?

And Contador may be stripped off a win in the Tour because he ate a steak. And Simoni ate cocaine candy. And all those drugs? They were for Rumsas's mother-in-law. Come on now.

 

[El Pistolero]

And Contador may be stripped off a win in the Tour because he ate a steak. And Simoni ate cocaine candy. And all those drugs? They were for Rumsas's mother-in-law. Come on now.

What Merckx took during that Lombardia isn't even on the forbidden list of doping products now.

The doping positive at the Giro was also incredibly fishy. Sure, Merckx doped, but these products didn't have the same effect as the boosts they can get these days or in the 90s especially.

For me Merckx will always have won 6 Giro's anyway.

 

[hrotha]

What Merckx took during that Lombardia isn't even on the forbidden list of doping products now.

The doping positive at the Giro was also incredibly fishy. Sure, Merckx doped, but these products didn't have the same effect as the boosts they can get these days or in the 90s especially.

For me Merckx will always have won 6 Giro's anyway.

It was on the list then, that's what matters. I already said above PEDs back then didn't give the same boosts as in the 90s, no one's disputing that. As for fishy positives - yeah, we heard of them all the time. Toni Colom for example said there was a huge conspiracy against him. Very credible.

 

[Echoes]

This forum is worse everyday, I guess.


Now it's not EPO = Amphetamine. It's Mucantyl = Clenbuterol.

Why am I responding, by the way?



Oh and now, Mr Hrotha is telling us that he has discovered the samples from Savona that so suddenly disappeared when Mr Rodoni opened his investigation.

Lol OK now I know who this man is.

 

[El Pistolero]

It was on the list then, that's what matters. I already said above PEDs back then didn't give the same boosts as in the 90s, no one's disputing that. As for fishy positives - yeah, we heard of them all the time. Toni Colom for example said there was a huge conspiracy against him. Very credible.

No court these days would have sanctioned Merckx for what happened at the Giro. So yeah, it was pretty fishy. It might very well be real, but the evidence would never have stood in a court these days.

As for the bolded part. It's like saying gay people deserved to be killed in Iraq because it's the law there. Law is wrong, hence it was changed.

 

[superconfex]

But at least pre-90's it's plausible to think that the ones who won, particularly those who won on a consistent basis, were still the most naturally talented of their era. It's a cliche, but the doping wasn't that sophisiticated to turn the proverbial donkey into a race horse. In the 90's in particular, it is impossible to even guess whether Rider X was a natural talent, or Dominic the Donkey in a Desert Orchid costume. The playing field may not have been exactly level but reasonably so, but in the '90's the playing field had the profile of Amstel Gold.

Which is exactly why I do not believe Jalabert deserves the credit he is getting by some in this thread. More than most from that era, in fact, due to his associations with Saiz. He may have been a natural mini-Merckx, but somehow I doubt it.

Same with Richard Virenque. Same with Abraham Olano. Same with Claudio Chiappucci. Same with endless others from that era.

Lol......Jaskuła. The first rider to make me think something is not quite right here

 

[hrotha]

As for the bolded part. It's like saying gay people deserved to be killed in Iraq because it's the law there. Law is wrong, hence it was changed.

I'm putting this analogy in a fitting frame and hanging it on my wall. Brilliant.