Which is more ridiculous

[veganrob]

TSF. It's a great poll. I choose ToC but there are some really tough choices.

"4th Grade Tour". Awesome

 

[The Hitch]

It would be the ToC as the 4th GT, but the race organisers never said it was - they just get willfully misquoted by people wanting to have a pop.

So the King of the Mountains in the Netherlands it is.

Who said the organisers had to say it? It was said by many high profile people in cycling many many times, so it makes the poll.

"It’s like the Tour de France" - Carlos Sastre, Geox-TMC

"I would say it is at the level of a Grand Tour, comparable to the Giro d'Italia." - Roberto Amandio, (you believe this is the guy DSing Basso to a Giro victory)


Add various crap said by Ligget and Sherwen during commentary about how this is number 2 and TDU number 4 in world stage races. Other hype includes " we are now going up Alpe d huez, oh wait were not, its Mount Baldy" during this years coverage, and "The race organization (Tour of California) is equal to or better than the Tour de France"

But the poll says nothing about "the race organizers." That "4th GT thing" has bandied about for some time by journalists and others.

For a good laugh, do a Google search for "Tour of California 4th Grand Tour." Google tries to spell-correct it to "4th Grade Tour."

lol nicely found.

 

[Archibald]

For a good laugh, do a Google search for "Tour of California 4th Grand Tour." Google tries to spell-correct it to "4th Grade Tour."

it didn't, but it did throw up a link to this thread, which is just as funny

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Add various crap said by Ligget and Sherwen during commentary about how this is number 2 and TDU number 4 in world stage races. Other hype includes " we are now going up Alpe d huez, oh wait were not, its Mount Baldy" during this years coverage

To be fair, Sherwen and Liggett have never heard of any other climbs, so it's not surprising that they'd get confused.

 

[Hmmmmm]

Calling the Tour of California the 4 Grand Tour is ridiculous to me. I'm American and I guess the ToC preempts all those other stage races which have a longer and richer history. Whatever!

 

[rides like a girl]

As a Californian, couldn't vote for ATOC. The state needs people to come, spend money and watch the 4th GT...

I have only been to Sydney so don't know that hill personally. Usually a the word hill is less than a mountain.

Only know Dutch people, not the topography. Can't vote for what I don't know. I try to be an educated voter.

Voted for Levi, he wasn't born in Cali, so can freely cast my vote against him. Watching him struggle up Baldy was all I needed. His days of GT podium are toast, unless something strange happens.

Of course I have contradicted myself as Phil and Paul always remind me... He is the 3 time winner, thus a 3 time GT winner.

 

[veganrob]

As a Californian, couldn't vote for ATOC. The state needs people to come, spend money and watch the 4th GT...

I have only been to Sydney so don't know that hill personally. Usually a the word hill is less than a mountain.

Only know Dutch people, not the topography. Can't vote for what I don't know. I try to be an educated voter.

Voted for Levi, he wasn't born in Cali, so can freely cast my vote against him. Watching him struggle up Baldy was all I needed. His days of GT podium are toast, unless something strange happens.

Of course I have contradicted myself as Phil and Paul always remind me... He is the 3 time winner, thus a 3 time GT winner.

You voted for one of the Teabagger Twins?

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Voted the dutch option, but only because I seemed to overlook the ToC option...

 

[El Pistolero]

Having a KoM jersey in a Dutch race is more severe than Cali being a fourth GT lol

This year, at least they didn't have a KoM in the Tour of Belgium because not enough "mountains"(read as hills)

 

[greenedge]

The ToC is not bad but is hyped up too much. Each GT lasts for 3 weeks and has it's own prestige. Unless if they wanted to make a " Tour of America " GT it would never be considered a 4th GT. Also the schedule is busy enough as it is where would you slot it in. There would only be certain teams going for the Win too, ( national pride ) and the fact the TDF would be on soon.

Levi might have been a better TDF contender if he had managed his racing schedules better earlier in his career. However he is not a Gt threat as of now.

The KOM in a dutch stage race is ludicrous. ( never thought about it )

The Wilunga hill is not a mountain top finish but to us Aussies it is ( jks ) The TDU sounds better than Tour of Britain as well.

 

[ElChingon]

I like the ToC but man is it over-rated!

To be 4th, well to even make it to the top 20 they need to nail down a schedule and you definitely can not have it at the same time as a GT! Same time frame as a GT mark it as a 2nd rate race because only 2nd rate racers show up! I know it is hard for some people to hear that because their local or national racers are there but its the truth. No pro should be at a race while a GT is in progress unless they are at the GT! Local training races are ok, but not a wannabe quality race which can't nail down a solid date on the calendar. Its as if the racers didn't make the Giro team so they settled for the ToC.

If anything the ToC is mainly known for bringing bad weather! If they dare move it to August it will be the dawn of the Ice age.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Clearly calling California the 4th tour is ridiculous but there's no reason it can't be the 4th, 3rd or even 2nd GT. It's got everything going for it apart from the level of interest currently. I'm a bit of a convert.



Anyway, I voted 'Other'. The UCI is more ridiculous than any of these things.

 

[Parrulo]

Clearly calling California the 4th tour is ridiculous but there's no reason it can't be the 4th, 3rd or even 2nd GT. It's got everything going for it apart from the level of interest currently. I'm a bit of a convert.



Anyway, I voted 'Other'. The UCI is more ridiculous than any of these things.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

a big picture

What makes you think either of them are true?

 

[Ney the Viking]

They should call it King of the Hill in Belgian/Dutch stage races

We do that in Denmark, with the Hill Jersey and Hill sprints, so yeah the dutch are deluded

 

[LeakyLens]

What's wrong with calling the Tour of Britain, the Tour of 'Britain'? I don't get that.

Over the past two years it has included England, Scotland and Wales. What's the problem?

The Tour de France doesn't visit every department every year.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The ToC is not bad but is hyped up too much. Each GT lasts for 3 weeks and has it's own prestige. Unless if they wanted to make a " Tour of America " GT it would never be considered a 4th GT.

The problem is, the USA is simply FAR too large to do a 3 week race. You'd be taking a couple of months AT LEAST if you wanted to adequately cover much of it.

You could have it do 2 or 3 states each year, on a rotating basis, but that would be hard to sell, sponsor etc (i.e. certain places willing to keep paying, others want a slice of the pie once in a while, plus if you end up with, say, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas hosting it one year you get more or less 21 flat stages, which nobody wants except maybe HTC. If you keep doing the same places over and over (California, Colorado) then it opens it up to the same criticism the Tour of Britain has faced, because it's not really a 'Tour of America' if it always uses the exact same areas (and then that makes it harder to do without enormous transfers if they want to share bits of the race around different parts of the countries). Also, you have the problem that the different states have their own laws, rules and regulations that need to be worked with.

What's wrong with calling the Tour of Britain, the Tour of 'Britain'? I don't get that.

Over the past two years it has included England, Scotland and Wales. What's the problem?

The Tour de France doesn't visit every department every year.

I think the problem is twofold.
1) Wales and Scotland keep getting 1 stage (sometimes between them) of an 8 stage race.
2) Wales and Scotland, unlike the départements of France, are their own countries with their own proud national histories (and their own resentment of the English), and perceive this as a slight on them. Especially considering they contain terrain more conducive to selective racing than most of England.

The problem, like I just outlined with my hypothetical Tour of America above, is that the Tour of Britain goes where people are willing to pay to host it. Hence Blackpool and Stoke are always on the route. East Anglia seems to be happy with it and it's coming back there, while the fascination with a Tour de France-style finish on a circuit in London then means they're unwilling to make a Scottish stage (which is therefore necessarily at the start of the race) too selective or challenging so as to avoid setting the GC from the start.

I'd like Swansea (on a circuit with that hill they used last year?), Cardiff, Glasgow or Edinburgh to host the finish once in a while, not because of any misplaced sympathy with the Welsh or the Scots (after all, if they want more representation in the race, they need their local authorities to pay for it, and at the moment the English areas are paying for it) but because it would make for more interesting routes.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem is, the USA is simply FAR too large to do a 3 week race. You'd be taking a couple of months AT LEAST if you wanted to adequately cover much of it.

You could have it do 2 or 3 states each year, on a rotating basis, but that would be hard to sell, sponsor etc (i.e. certain places willing to keep paying, others want a slice of the pie once in a while, plus if you end up with, say, Missouri, Nebraska and Kansas hosting it one year you get more or less 21 flat stages, which nobody wants except maybe HTC. If you keep doing the same places over and over (California, Colorado) then it opens it up to the same criticism the Tour of Britain has faced, because it's not really a 'Tour of America' if it always uses the exact same areas (and then that makes it harder to do without enormous transfers if they want to share bits of the race around different parts of the countries). Also, you have the problem that the different states have their own laws, rules and regulations that need to be worked with.

I think the problem is twofold.
1) Wales and Scotland keep getting 1 stage (sometimes between them) of an 8 stage race.
2) Wales and Scotland, unlike the départements of France, are their own countries with their own proud national histories (and their own resentment of the English), and perceive this as a slight on them. Especially considering they contain terrain more conducive to selective racing than most of England.

The problem, like I just outlined with my hypothetical Tour of America above, is that the Tour of Britain goes where people are willing to pay to host it. Hence Blackpool and Stoke are always on the route. East Anglia seems to be happy with it and it's coming back there, while the fascination with a Tour de France-style finish on a circuit in London then means they're unwilling to make a Scottish stage (which is therefore necessarily at the start of the race) too selective or challenging so as to avoid setting the GC from the start.

I'd like Swansea (on a circuit with that hill they used last year?), Cardiff, Glasgow or Edinburgh to host the finish once in a while, not because of any misplaced sympathy with the Welsh or the Scots (after all, if they want more representation in the race, they need their local authorities to pay for it, and at the moment the English areas are paying for it) but because it would make for more interesting routes.

Libertine always gives articulate answers. Bravo

 

[Anonymous]

I think the problem is twofold.
1) Wales and Scotland keep getting 1 stage (sometimes between them) of an 8 stage race.
2) Wales and Scotland, unlike the départements of France, are their own countries with their own proud national histories (and their own resentment of the English), and perceive this as a slight on them. Especially considering they contain terrain more conducive to selective racing than most of England.

And thats why I included it. The Tour of Britain is not the ToB by any stretch of the imagination. It is the tour of england with occasional forays into other countries (a but like the tour de france really).

Wales, Scotland, and Cornwall (because those there still believe it is a country) have some of the most spectacular scenery (and tough climbing) and the former two get a stage between them a year, and the latter I dont think has seen the ToB in a long long time (which is a shame because cycling has a massive following in cornwall)

I wonder if next year with the olympics and paralympics (although they do not clash with the tob) may persuede the organisers to move the finish somewhere else.