which TDFs routes are the best?and why?

[malakassis]

i just wonder what s peoples opinion on this

 

[rghysens]

i just wonder what s peoples opinion on this

If the Alps are before the Pyrenees, there tend to be some flat stage after the Pyrenees, as they are further from Paris. This means that the last few days there won't be too much GC action.
It is however easily doable to go from the Alps to Paris overnight (or in the morning of the last day), as in 2011, 2013 and 2015, meaning the battle for GC will last a bit longer.

A possible solution would be to have some stages through the Massif Central after the Pyrenees and right before paris, as tried in 2005. But, while they can provide some enjoyable 1st week racing, chances that the GC will be turned upside down here are quite slim.

So: Alps after Pyrenees.

edit: And you can still have the Vosges after the Alps. I would like to see a TdF ending with a stage to La Planche des Belles Filles and a stage in the high Vosges (Ballon d'Alsace, Grand Ballon, Petit Ballon, Platzerwasel,...) on the last friday and saturday of the race.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Can you redo the poll according to Bigmac's insructions. It doesnt work at the moment.

 

["Jeff"]

Most Tour director's prefered Pyrenees before the Alps, like they should.

 

[malakassis]

Re:

Can you redo the poll according to Bigmac's insructions. It doesnt work at the moment.

thank you. it should work now. i voted pyrenees before alps. because alps are better suited for GC drama (higher, longer, more bonk-potential)

 

[roundabout]

Pyrenees last generally mean at least 1 long flat ITT though

 

[Valv.Piti]

2013 is without a doubt the best route I can remember.

 

[fowlyetti]

2012. Amazing. Maybe could have done with an extra ITT tho.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

I don't think it matters. It's the riders who make the race worth watching. For example in 2012 the Alps before the Pyreneese were boring, but then in 2014 the fight behind Nibali was pretty exciting.

 

[TMP402]

There hasn't been enough time trialling since perhaps 1990. A year like 1982 is approaching the ideal amount.

 

[Gigs_98]

I prefer the pyrenees before the alps but thats something personal and has nothing to do with better racing. It only matters if there are more mountain stages in the vosges and the jura after the alps because that way riders would go crazy on the alps to gain time while its difficult to get much more on the low mountain rages, which would cause long range attacks. However I voted "it doesnt matter" because the tour hardly ever does it.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I prefer the pyrenees before the alps but thats something personal and has nothing to do with better racing. It only matters if there are more mountain stages in the vosges and the jura after the alps because that way riders would go crazy on the alps to gain time while its difficult to get much more on the low mountain rages, which would cause long range attacks. However I voted "it doesnt matter" because the tour hardly ever does it.

Well, by the theory that it is very hard to gain time in the vosges/juras, it wouldnt really matter and if they needed time in the Alps, they would attack anyways, regardless of the juras or vosges coming after the Alps.

But I agree with the fact that we need more of that, 2014 Vosges were the best example of some seriously good racing with 3 good stages.

 

[phanatic]

Re:

2012. Amazing. Maybe could have done with an extra ITT tho.

200k ITT for a Tour or Truth.

edit: voted alps first, as a personal preference, but like the annual reversal.

 

[Red Rick]

I like having the Alps after the pyrenees, mostly because the biggest Alpine climbs are harder and higher than what you find in the pyrenees, so you're unlikely to get them when the Alpes are first. However, I do hate that they go to Alp d'Huez is there almost every *** time the Alps are last

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

2012. Amazing. Maybe could have done with an extra ITT tho.

Did they even have the Alps in this edition?

Sorry if I blinked

 

[guncha]

I don't think it matters. For instance, TDF 09 had Pyrenees before Alpes and the route was awful. TDF 12 had Alpes before Pyrenees and the route was at least as awful.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I like having the Alps after the pyrenees, mostly because the biggest Alpine climbs are harder and higher than what you find in the pyrenees, so you're unlikely to get them when the Alpes are first. However, I do hate that they go to Alp d'Huez is there almost every **** time the Alps are last

The funny thing is, tho, that at the Alpe, we are GUARENTEED good racing right from the bottom. Pretty much the only climb you can say that about and for that reason, I wouldnt mind seeing the Alpe every 2 year.

 

[Jonhard]

For me, the balance between hills and time trialling is more important to the quality of the race, and more grand tours have been light on TTs in recent years. The TT can be hilly or flat, favouring different physical characteristics and technical skills, either way it will tend to find the strongest rider rather than the cleverest DS.

Tactics are important too of course – balance is all, and that’s a highly subjective issue.

A proper comparison of the amount of TT kms in the Tour over the years would be interesting. It seems to me that the Hinault years, for example, had quite a lot of TT stages.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I like having the Alps after the pyrenees, mostly because the biggest Alpine climbs are harder and higher than what you find in the pyrenees, so you're unlikely to get them when the Alpes are first. However, I do hate that they go to Alp d'Huez is there almost every **** time the Alps are last

The funny thing is, tho, that at the Alpe, we are GUARENTEED good racing right from the bottom. Pretty much the only climb you can say that about and for that reason, I wouldnt mind seeing the Alpe every 2 year.

My problem with Alp d'Huez is actually not that it isn't raced well, it's that they use a climb every 2 years as a MTF while there's so many great climbs in the Alps that are totally and completely underused. Add to that that there's always gonna be a decent amount of flat before AdH, making it very unlikely that there's racing before the final ascent. In 2015 Quintana only did a half-assed attempt because he desperately wanted Valverde along and in 2011 Contador happened, which will probably never happen again like that.

Oh and I can't stand the hype that makes so many July fans believe it's the hardest climb in the sport while there are posters on here who can name 150 harder climbs that are usable that are harder.

 

[bassano]

Re: Re:

My problem with Alp d'Huez is actually not that it isn't raced well, it's that they use a climb every 2 years as a MTF while there's so many great climbs in the Alps that are totally and completely underused. Add to that that there's always gonna be a decent amount of flat before AdH, making it very unlikely that there's racing before the final ascent. In 2015 Quintana only did a half-assed attempt because he desperately wanted Valverde along and in 2011 Contador happened, which will probably never happen again like that.

Oh and I can't stand the hype that makes so many July fans believe it's the hardest climb in the sport while there are posters on here who can name 150 harder climbs that are usable that are harder.

Yeah, I also would like to see other climbs more often like les2alps, La plagne, etcetc. but for me alps should be after pyrenees because alps offer more fantastic scenes, and that should be on the end of the tour, even weather conditions are usually worse there it is another reason that alps are harder

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I like having the Alps after the pyrenees, mostly because the biggest Alpine climbs are harder and higher than what you find in the pyrenees, so you're unlikely to get them when the Alpes are first. However, I do hate that they go to Alp d'Huez is there almost every **** time the Alps are last

The funny thing is, tho, that at the Alpe, we are GUARENTEED good racing right from the bottom. Pretty much the only climb you can say that about and for that reason, I wouldnt mind seeing the Alpe every 2 year.

My problem with Alp d'Huez is actually not that it isn't raced well, it's that they use a climb every 2 years as a MTF while there's so many great climbs in the Alps that are totally and completely underused. Add to that that there's always gonna be a decent amount of flat before AdH, making it very unlikely that there's racing before the final ascent. In 2015 Quintana only did a half-assed attempt because he desperately wanted Valverde along and in 2011 Contador happened, which will probably never happen again like that.

Oh and I can't stand the hype that makes so many July fans believe it's the hardest climb in the sport while there are posters on here who can name 150 harder climbs that are usable that are harder.

In 11, 13 and 15, we have witnessed a lot more happening before the climb than we generally do with with pretty much all climbs, apart from good combos such as Pailheres-Ax3. And I really wouldnt call it halfassed by any means, it was a legitimate attack, but Froomey played it smartly. And there really isnt anything wrong with a the Alpe being a 'one-climb-stage' since we cant have actions on the penultimate climb every time which we actually have had the last couple of times the Alpe has been included.

July-fans like some new posters in here, like your friends or? It is a long time ago I have come across someone who said "Oh, the Alpe, the hardest climb in cycling". That last remark just seems odd to me.

Anyways.. most posters in here have agreed that (oh, pretty much everyone in here) that we have a bunch of overused climbs and that it sucks big time. Well, I agree to a certain extent, but I for one has absolutely nothing against using the Alpe this frequently since it DELIVERS. It *** delivers. Compare it to Jitu di Escarandi in this years Vuelta which was such a fine and dandy climb, never used which this site's route Guru LS had written about: came down to the last 2 kilometres. At least we can expect fireworks from the bottom. And there is no question about that it is the best benchmark in modern cycling to compare climbers which I also think is an important part.

 

[52520Andrew]

I like to see the Alps last but honestly I don't think it matters, you can make very hard stages using both ranges. I wouldn't mind seeing a good Jura stage at some point though.

As for the Alpe, I agree with it being overused, it is a special climb and usually delivers but I want to see some different climbs as opposed to the same roads every few years.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I like having the Alps after the pyrenees, mostly because the biggest Alpine climbs are harder and higher than what you find in the pyrenees, so you're unlikely to get them when the Alpes are first. However, I do hate that they go to Alp d'Huez is there almost every **** time the Alps are last

The funny thing is, tho, that at the Alpe, we are GUARENTEED good racing right from the bottom. Pretty much the only climb you can say that about and for that reason, I wouldnt mind seeing the Alpe every 2 year.

My problem with Alp d'Huez is actually not that it isn't raced well, it's that they use a climb every 2 years as a MTF while there's so many great climbs in the Alps that are totally and completely underused. Add to that that there's always gonna be a decent amount of flat before AdH, making it very unlikely that there's racing before the final ascent. In 2015 Quintana only did a half-assed attempt because he desperately wanted Valverde along and in 2011 Contador happened, which will probably never happen again like that.

Oh and I can't stand the hype that makes so many July fans believe it's the hardest climb in the sport while there are posters on here who can name 150 harder climbs that are usable that are harder.

In 11, 13 and 15, we have witnessed a lot more happening before the climb than we generally do with with pretty much all climbs, apart from good combos such as Pailheres-Ax3. And I really wouldnt call it halfassed by any means, it was a legitimate attack, but Froomey played it smartly. And there really isnt anything wrong with a the Alpe being a 'one-climb-stage' since we cant have actions on the penultimate climb every time which we actually have had the last couple of times the Alpe has been included.

July-fans like some new posters in here, like your friends or? It is a long time ago I have come across someone who said "Oh, the Alpe, the hardest climb in cycling". That last remark just seems odd to me.

Anyways.. most posters in here have agreed that (oh, pretty much everyone in here) that we have a bunch of overused climbs and that it sucks big time. Well, I agree to a certain extent, but I for one has absolutely nothing against using the Alpe this frequently since it DELIVERS. It **** delivers. Compare it to Jitu di Escarandi in this years Vuelta which was such a fine and dandy climb, never used which this site's route Guru LS had written about: came down to the last 2 kilometres. At least we can expect fireworks from the bottom. And there is no question about that it is the best benchmark in modern cycling to compare climbers which I also think is an important part.

I'm not talking about people on here, I'm talking about your casual, non posting fans. Anyway, we would've gotten a lot, lot more action if they had used a different combo where long range attacks would've been more beneficial, which I think is the most important thing when you're designing the last mountain stage. To me AdH is the mascotte of the ASO's inability to create new, exciting routes and tendency to just use those same old climbs again because they're famous. The comparison to Jitu di Escarandi is not entirely fair because circumstances where totally different, but I'll stop ranting about it now.

I just hope they're gonna start using the huge alpine climbs other than the CdF/Glandon and the Madeleine more.

 

[Finn84]

I voted Pyrenees before Alps but in general I'm in favour of yearly rotation. But I would always like to see one of Vosges/Jura/Massif to be used in Tour, preferrably with the first mountain stages being there.