Who actually manufactures Pinarello frames?

[simo1733]

I have heard that they are made in Taiwan but by who?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I have heard that they are made in Taiwan but by who?

Same people that makes these.

http://www.dhgate.com/2012-improved...2-red/p-ff80808136b056cd0136c1191d573046.html

 

[simo1733]

Same people that makes these.

http://www.dhgate.com/2012-improved...2-red/p-ff80808136b056cd0136c1191d573046.html

The fork isn't faired into downtube lime it is on the Dogma2 .Nice paint job though.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I have heard that they are made in Taiwan but by who?

Depends on the model. I don't know the current state of affairs, but there's maybe a three OEM's capable of doing that kind of quality at Pinarello's low volume.

Why do you ask? Despite the persistent rumors, a Taiwanese OEM isn't going to let a Dogma slip out the back door.

 

[nightfend]

Same people that makes these.

http://www.dhgate.com/2012-improved...2-red/p-ff80808136b056cd0136c1191d573046.html

That's not even the same frame as a Dogma 2. It is fairly easy to see. Especially around the downtube/fork area. Also, I'm not sure that e-bay seller is the manufacturer, but instead someone that got a bunch of knock-off carbon frames and painted them up to sell cheap.

Also, take a look at their knock-off Cervelo S3. Not even close to the correct frame. Very funny.

 

[Fiemme]

That's not even the same frame as a Dogma 2. It is fairly easy to see. Especially around the downtube/fork area. Also, I'm not sure that e-bay seller is the manufacturer, but instead someone that got a bunch of knock-off carbon frames and painted them up to sell cheap.

Also, take a look at their knock-off Cervelo S3. Not even close to the correct frame. Very funny.

The manufacturers make slight modifications to get around patented designs. The company is more than likely making frames for Pinarello. However there is a bigger market for cheap imitations at a substantially reduced price. This would be the Taiwanese Companies "Bread and Butter".

Pinarello may need to tread carefully with how they deal with these Taiwanese imitations. As demand for the cheaper imitation increases the demand for genuine Pinarellos falls. Eventually the Taiwanese company may decide that the low volume original is to much bother and stop manufacturing them and increase the volume of imitation frames they make. What do Pinarello do then, manufacture back in Italy and not have a competitively priced product. Could be the down fall of the company if they are not careful.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The manufacturers make slight modifications to get around patented designs. The company is more than likely making frames for Pinarello. However there is a bigger market for cheap imitations at a substantially reduced price. This would be the Taiwanese Companies "Bread and Butter".

It's not like this in Taiwan. The idea that Taiwan is an island is very appropriate. Everybody knows **EVERYBODY** in the bike business. It's like living in a small town for most of the industries based there. There are few secrets, and lots of information flowing.

Finally, their customers are big and valuable.Risking a customer that has paid for CEN certification for a few extra dollars would be plain foolish. There is no way they are letting stuff go out the back door. There's no way an OEM is going to try to sell at Pinarello prices either. They know their niche. It is manufacturing, not branding/marketing.

China? yes. A good copycat/low end business going on there that's made things pretty hard for the Taiwanese.

 

[simo1733]

Depends on the model. I don't know the current state of affairs, but there's maybe a three OEM's capable of doing that kind of quality at Pinarello's low volume.

Why do you ask? Despite the persistent rumors, a Taiwanese OEM isn't going to let a Dogma slip out the back door.

Just because someone is selling a Paris ans claiming it is made in Italy.I know thats not true but I have never seen real proof of where they are made.

 

[PCutter]

All Pinarello's are made in the 'far east'. re. Taiwan. They, along with other 'Italian' manufacturers like Bianchi, Willier etc get to describe their bikes (by way of the sticker on the frame stating "Made in Italy" by doing 'completion' work on the frame...painting and transfers. There is a % of total cost which must be completed in the home country in order to make this claim (I think its 40% of total cost), but the raw carbon manufacture is done in Taiwan.

Here are a few articles which explain the carbon bike industry well, and the problem with fakes. This first article includes a screen capture from the Pinarello website noting that they manufacture in the far east (which should meet your 'proof' requirement). The first two articles are from a blogger Cam/CyclingIQ, he's worked in the industry for some time including a number of roles in Asia (including for BMC) and is very well informed on the bike market.

http://cyclingiq.com/2011/12/01/princes-thieves-and-make-believe-pinarello-fights-for-its-name/

This second article names the big 3 Taiwanese OEM manufacturers, you can be pretty certain Pinarello is made by one of these - some manufacturers, including Pinarello are careful about disclosing which one they use.

http://cyclingiq.com/2012/02/14/shadow-optic-the-manufacturing-partner-paradox/

This final article is from Cyclingtips and sort of answers the claims of 'my $500 dogma is just as good as your $5000 one'. It isn't. But if you're happy (not meaning you the OP specifically) with a $500 version, thats up to you.

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2011/08/are-all-carbon-bikes-created-equal/

The fakes are made in China. They don't come out the back of the same factory as the originals. The big brands aren't going to put up with that are they? The fakes are made in China from molds which are based on/try to emulate the real versions which is why there are slight differences. The reason why Pinarello's, Cervelo's are so popular for fakes is 1) they are desirable objects to purchasers due to the cost difference between real/fake 2) because they have distinctive frame shapes, the fakes get some credibility. If you were just copying a fairly standard frame shape (eg Scott Addict or a Focus or similar) you could easily just replicate with an open source frame and a few stickers. So making molds of wavey rear chain stays and forks adds to the fake's illusion.

 

[simo1733]

Thanks for the info PC.Very thorough.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm going off topic a bit here:

Particular to this link: http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2011/08/are-all-carbon-bikes-created-equal/

I have asked for CEN standards testing results from a number of the Chinese carbon suppliers and gotten specific replies with independent testing results attached for the model I was interested in purchasing.

However, the product is not CEN "certified." That's different and expensive and definitely part of what you are paying for when buying from a brand selling the same bike around the world and that's part of what you pay for when you go to a big Taiwanese OEM. They will be sure their manufacturing process results in CEN certifiable product.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Pinarellos are made in Taiwan by Carbotec out of Japanese Toray carbon.

 

[Boeing]

I'm going off topic a bit here:

Particular to this link: http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2011/08/are-all-carbon-bikes-created-equal/

I have asked for CEN standards testing results from a number of the Chinese carbon suppliers and gotten specific replies with independent testing results attached for the model I was interested in purchasing.

However, the product is not CEN "certified." That's different and expensive and definitely part of what you are paying for when buying from a brand selling the same bike around the world and that's part of what you pay for when you go to a big Taiwanese OEM. They will be sure their manufacturing process results in CEN certifiable product.

For 360 I just went ahead and bought the carbon 29 to test myself. WTF I'll keep you posted