Who do you think is the first clean rider in the top 50?

[Vostromo]

I'm intrigued to see who people think is the "best" clean rider in the current top 50. Thoughts, or is it too hard to answer?

1. Peter SAGAN 26-jan-1990 Tinkoff SVK 2854
2. Christopher FROOME 20-mei-1985 Team Sky GBR 2767
3. Greg VAN AVERMAET 17-mei-1985 BMC Racing Team BEL 2341
4. Nairo Alexander QUINTANA ROJAS 04-feb-1990 Movistar Team COL 2320
5. Alejandro VALVERDE BELMONTE 25-apr-1980 Movistar Team ESP 2265
6. Alberto CONTADOR VELASCO 06-dec-1982 Tinkoff ESP 1584
7. Romain BARDET 09-nov-1990 Ag2r La Mondiale FRA 1578
8. Jon IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI 04-feb-1989 Movistar Team ESP 1538
9. Rui Alberto FARIA DA COSTA 05-okt-1986 Lampre - Merida POR 1479
10. Bauke MOLLEMA 26-nov-1986 Trek - Segafredo NED 1470
11. Richie PORTE 30-jan-1985 BMC Racing Team AUS 1353
12. Alexander KRISTOFF 05-jul-1987 Team Katusha NOR 1330
13. Daniel MARTIN 20-aug-1986 Etixx - Quick Step IRL 1303
14. Geraint THOMAS 25-mei-1986 Team Sky GBR 1299
15. Fabian CANCELLARA 18-mrt-1981 Trek - Segafredo SUI 1288
16. Vincenzo NIBALI 14-nov-1984 Astana Pro Team ITA 1280
17. Diego ULISSI 15-jul-1989 Lampre - Merida ITA 1249
18. Joaquin RODRIGUEZ OLIVER 12-mei-1979 Team Katusha ESP 1227
19. Julian ALAPHILIPPE 11-jun-1992 Etixx - Quick Step FRA 1221
20. Tom DUMOULIN 11-nov-1990 Team Giant - Alpecin NED 1213
21. Wilco KELDERMAN 25-mrt-1991 Team Lotto NL - Jumbo NED 1200
22. Ilnur ZAKARIN 15-sep-1989 Team Katusha RUS 1169
23. Edvald BOASSON HAGEN 17-mei-1987 Team Dimension Data NOR 1141
24. Wouter POELS 01-okt-1987 Team Sky NED 1136
25. Michael MATTHEWS 26-sep-1990 Orica - Bikeexchange AUS 1104
26. Adam YATES 07-aug-1992 Orica - Bikeexchange GBR 1101
27. Jhoan Esteban CHAVES RUBIO 17-jan-1990 Orica - Bikeexchange COL 1066
28. Rafal MAJKA 12-sep-1989 Tinkoff POL 1049
29. Roman KREUZIGER 06-mei-1986 Tinkoff CZE 1042
30. Sergio Luis HENAO MONTOYA 10-dec-1987 Team Sky COL 1041
31. Tim WELLENS 10-mei-1991 Lotto Soudal BEL 994
32. Arnaud DEMARE 26-aug-1991 FDJ FRA 986
33. Jarlinson PANTANO GOMEZ 19-nov-1988 IAM Cycling COL 973
34. Louis MEINTJES 21-feb-1992 Lampre - Merida RSA 959
35. Michal KWIATKOWSKI 02-jun-1990 Team Sky POL 933
36. Thibaut PINOT 29-mei-1990 FDJ FRA 920
37. Sep VANMARCKE 28-jul-1988 Team Lotto NL - Jumbo BEL 895
38. Oliver NAESEN 16-sep-1990 IAM Cycling BEL 882
39. Tony GALLOPIN 24-mei-1988 Lotto Soudal FRA 863
40. Gianluca BRAMBILLA 22-aug-1987 Etixx - Quick Step ITA 859
41. Giacomo NIZZOLO 30-jan-1989 Trek - Segafredo ITA 851
42. Warren BARGUIL 28-okt-1991 Team Giant - Alpecin FRA 848
43. Tejay VAN GARDEREN 12-aug-1988 BMC Racing Team USA 837
44. Bob JUNGELS 22-sep-1992 Etixx - Quick Step LUX 832
45. Andre GREIPEL 16-jul-1982 Lotto Soudal GER 826
46. Zdenek STYBAR 11-dec-1985 Etixx - Quick Step CZE 805
47. Matteo TRENTIN 02-aug-1989 Etixx - Quick Step ITA 795
48. Luis Leon SANCHEZ GIL 24-nov-1983 Astana Pro Team ESP 792
49. Simon YATES 07-aug-1992 Orica - Bikeexchange GBR 788
50. Enrico GASPAROTTO 22-mrt-1982 Wanty - Groupe Gobert ITA 779

 

[Netserk]

There's not a single one of them that I think is more likely to be clean than dirty, but it is definitely possible that not everyone of them is dirty, although I think that is more likely than the opposite.

Naesen is the least suspicious of them to me, but I still find it more likely that he is dirty than clean. That said, I put him in a category, where I do not assume him to be neither one nor the other, unlike most/a lot of them that I assume are dirty

 

[Vostromo]

heh, fantastic.. so even your suspected clean rider you think is more likely dirty?

 

[Netserk]

I didn't say I suspected him to be clean, just that he was the least suspicious. One of them has to be the 50th most suspicious of them.

 

[42x16ss]

Step 1: Print out list of riders and put on wall

Step 2: Grab a dart

Step 3: Put on blindfold

Step 4: Throw at list

 

[Nomad]

Probably Tejay...if he could finish a race.

 

[vedrafjord]

Lance's BFF Tejay? Hell no.

I think it's clear that 'clean' is a spectrum where in between pure, pure bread and water and full on blood doping you have supplements, legal OTC medicines like ibuprofen, legal vitamins etc delivered by illegal means (needles), OOC corticosteroids, tramadol, dodgy TUEs, new drugs that haven't been banned yet (e.g. meldonium before this year), banned drugs that have a marginal effect on performance (say, pseudoephedrine), and finally the big stuff: EPO/transfusions/etc.

I'd like to think someone like Pinot or Wellens is closer to the good side of that spectrum than the bad. I don't see it as a black or white thing.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Define "clean" first

 

[sniper]

Was there a UCI ranking when Kimmage rode?
If so, anyone know what his highest ranking ever was?

 

[Netserk]

Re:

Define "clean" first

I think it's fair to assume compliance with the wada-code/the rules of the sport, unless a more strict definition is provided.

 

[sniper]

to find the odd clean guy one could simply stripe away the riders whom we know for fairly certain are dopers.

As a 'certain' doper I'm nominating Louis Meintjes, mainly because of his connections to Barry Austin.

 

[Vostromo]

Kimmage wasn't a clean rider, he even wrote a book about it.

 

[Vostromo]

500 views and a couple of half answers...

 

[zlev11]

Pinot.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

500 views and a couple of half answers...

You might be disappointed if you're looking for an answer....

The default clinic setting is that all riders are dirty, some more than others.

You may have to expand your list considerably to get to a rider that people agree is clean. IMO

Welcome to the forum!

 

[TomLPC]

Kimmage was basically clean though wasn't he?

Haven't read Rough Ride in years but I seem to remember him only juicing up for a couple of meaningless crits, which wouldn't have an impact on this kind of ranking system

 

[Lyon]

I don't know about clean, but if number 23 had gone full *** like most of the others he would easily have been number one.

 

[vedrafjord]

When I see results from races in the 00's I often find myself playing a variant of the classic MB game Guess Who in my head, crossing off the dopers and seeing who's left, then guessing the clean winner. We've learned that sometimes it takes a decade or more for the truth to come out - sometimes as a knockout blow, but just as often by a drip-drip-drip of rumours and circumstantial evidence.

We can flip down a few who've been banned straight away:
5. Alejandro VALVERDE BELMONTE 25-apr-1980 Movistar Team ESP 2265
Banned after his DNA matched a Puerto blood bag

6. Alberto CONTADOR VELASCO 06-dec-1982 Tinkoff ESP 1584
Initially linked to Puerto but cleared, 5/10 on 2010 UCI index of suspicion, banned for clenbuterol

9. Rui Alberto FARIA DA COSTA 05-okt-1986 Lampre - Merida POR 1479
Banned for methylhexanamine

17. Diego ULISSI 15-jul-1989 Lampre - Merida ITA 1249
Banned for double salbutamol limit

22. Ilnur ZAKARIN 15-sep-1989 Team Katusha RUS 1169
Banned for methandienone

49. Simon YATES 07-aug-1992 Orica - Bikeexchange GBR 788
Banned for Terbutaline

As well as some who have damning evidence against them:

29. Roman KREUZIGER 06-mei-1986 Tinkoff CZE 1042
Biological passport case

30. Sergio Luis HENAO MONTOYA 10-dec-1987 Team Sky COL 1041
Biological passport case

48. Luis Leon SANCHEZ GIL 24-nov-1983 Astana Pro Team ESP 792
Linked to Puerto

Now it starts to get into greyer areas:

2. Christopher FROOME 20-mei-1985 Team Sky GBR 2767
Suspicious prednisolone TUEs

3. Greg VAN AVERMAET 17-mei-1985 BMC Racing Team BEL 2341
Investigated for Diprophos and Vaminolact but cleared

14. Geraint THOMAS 25-mei-1986 Team Sky GBR 1299
6/10 on 2010 UCI index of suspicion

50. Enrico GASPAROTTO 22-mrt-1982 Wanty - Groupe Gobert ITA 779
Linked to Ferrari, failed MPCC cortisol test

43. Tejay VAN GARDEREN 12-aug-1988 BMC Racing Team USA 837
Trains with Lance

I don't think it's possible to be a clean team leader on Astana, plus his return from the dead performance in this year's Giro was IMO one of the most blatant blood bags of all time:
16. Vincenzo NIBALI 14-nov-1984 Astana Pro Team ITA 1280

Not that Katusha are clean:
12. Alexander KRISTOFF 05-jul-1987 Team Katusha NOR 1330
18. Joaquin RODRIGUEZ OLIVER 12-mei-1979 Team Katusha ESP 1227

Cancellara rode on dirty teams in a dirty era, has had Puerto rumours, plus there's the motor thing:
15. Fabian CANCELLARA 18-mrt-1981 Trek - Segafredo SUI 1288

and so on and so forth...

So if we come back to this thread in ten years, how many more names will be crossed off? And will one ones left standing be clean? Or just lucky?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I don't know about clean, but if number 23 had gone full *** like most of the others he would easily have been number one.

Number 23 would probably have been a 5 time Tour winner by this point if he was British

 

[Nick C.]

Bardet? Mollema? Kelderman? EBH? Sagan and Quintana haven't done anything that made you raise your eyebrow or had accusations, beyond "their results are so good they must be" line of logic. Unfortunately that usually is not a faulty default position.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Bardet? Mollema? Kelderman? EBH? Sagan and Quintana haven't done anything that made you raise your eyebrow or had accusations, beyond "their results are so good they must be" line of logic. Unfortunately that usually is not a faulty default position.

Quintana could be debunked by the company he keeps....

 

[Bannockburn]

Not that it's the end-all-be-all by any stretch, but Dumoulin's comments on Wiggins make him an intriguing possibility here. At least moreso than many of the others...

 

[PremierAndrew]

Not that it's the end-all-be-all by any stretch, but Dumoulin's comments on Wiggins make him an intriguing possibility here. At least moreso than many of the others...

Wiggins absolutely shat on Lance after it all came out. He must be one of the cleanest too

Dumoulin's power on the flat along with his seemingly high power to weight ratio automatically makes him a super suspicious rider

 

[hrotha]

Not that it's the end-all-be-all by any stretch, but Dumoulin's comments on Wiggins make him an intriguing possibility here. At least moreso than many of the others...

Wiggins absolutely shat on Lance after it all came out. He must be one of the cleanest too

Wiggins defended Armstrong until the very end and only turned on him with the reasoned decision. The equivalent would be Dumoulin trashing Wiggins only after the latter was officially, legally busted.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

500 views and a couple of half answers...

You might be disappointed if you're looking for an answer....

The default clinic setting is that all riders are dirty, some more than others.

You may have to expand your list considerably to get to a rider that people agree is clean. IMO

Welcome to the forum!

Not quite. It's more like there's nobody that we'd go on the record as saying they are clean. There's just been too many cases, with too many riders. Every few years there's busts and/or scandals exposing dopers and techniques yet the level at the top hardly changes. It's too coincidental.