Who gets tossed under the bus?

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Apr 28, 2010
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I'd think people from the Motorola days could be at risk - Och, Phil Anderson, Sean Yates. They're probably the only ones he could attack without bringing more US Postal stuff down on him.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Roland Rat said:
I'd think people from the Motorola days could be at risk - Och, Phil Anderson, Sean Yates. They're probably the only ones he could attack without bringing more US Postal stuff down on him.
Well, Och did "steal" Taylor Phinney. . . .
 
Apr 28, 2010
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Beech Mtn said:
Well, Och did "steal" Taylor Phinney. . . .
Yeah. and he could give it the "I was young and naive and they told me I had to do it to compete and I didn't want to..." crap.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Race Radio said:
I think it would be more like a DS or rider who is active today, who people think is clean, but might not have given up the old ways. Kinda like how many people were surprised with Landis' fingered Alan Lim.

The other big question is who flips first. If it were a race I would say Knaggs and Brewer are neck and neck.
FYI, I wish I could remember the link, but it was recent. Either Lim was posting about working with Taylor Phinney, or Phinney posting about working with Alan Lim.

Either way, they have a relationship and are working together. Michele is obviously still booked (or very expensive). Sad revelation. But the new SOP seems to be to flaunt it and operate under "they can't prove anything" assumptions. Flip everyone the bird until you're begging a judge for leniency.
 
Jun 11, 2010
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A wild idea.......

Maybe we have missed something altogether.

Johan made a big issue about his suspension dates.

If he had got his way he would be missing TDU.

If he has turned grass and has squealed to the Feds about the whole setup he probably wouldn't want to be at Armstrongs last non american race so being suspended for Jan would have suited him well.

Pretty tough looking someone in the eye if you have been fessing up for the last few months.
Has he made many trips to see LA in the states etc?

He has I believe let Armstrong do most of the Landis bashing in the Media since it broke.

Maybe The Hog is throwing his star pupil under the bus? On his personal website he has been pretty quiet in the blog etc.

Wild idea, but maybe just maybe.......
 
Jul 25, 2009
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Race Radio said:
I think it would be more like a DS or rider who is active today, who people think is clean, but might not have given up the old ways. Kinda like how many people were surprised with Landis' fingered Alan Lim. '...'
Brailsford? :D

Since Lim went to radioshack, I don't there is anything that would surprise me. Disappoint maybe. Surprise - no.
 
Virgin Birth

My bet is none of the above.

If they are any good at all, Public Strategies may have already worked out the political calculations for 'going negative.' It's too risky. So they work the positive because Lance is a force for good. Right?

Meanwhile, if any new info drops, then more truth is manufactured to keep team Pharmstrong brand alive. Everyone else claims no knowledge. Another unlawful system created and operated seemingly without anyone's knowledge. It's worse than a virgin birth.
 
May 26, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
My bet is none of the above.

If they are any good at all, Public Strategies may have already worked out the political calculations for 'going negative.' It's too risky. So they work the positive because Lance is a force for good. Right?

Meanwhile, if any new info drops, then more truth is manufactured to keep team Pharmstrong brand alive. Everyone else claims no knowledge. Another unlawful system created and operated seemingly without anyone's knowledge. It's worse than a virgin birth.
it's really working in here:D
 
May 26, 2010
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I Watch Cycling In July said:
Brailsford? :D

Since Lim went to radioshack, I don't there is anything that would surprise me. Disappoint maybe. Surprise - no.
when Brailsford saw the bus coming for Millar he left quietly out the back door;)
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Roland Rat said:
Yeah. and he could give it the "I was young and naive and they told me I had to do it to compete and I didn't want to..." crap.
I'd use that excuse to throw Chris Comical under the bus.
 
I don't really see it for the same reasons MacRoadie says. They would need to go after equally big fish. A MAD strategy of blowing up someone like JV or Big George won't fly, as they can just confess and apologize and say they wish to cooperate and people will accept it. But this will kill LA/Hog. It's like torching up your own uninsured mansion in order to catch your neighbor's mobile home down the street on fire.

Even JV being a team director won't work. He's already hinted in the past that he doped and seems to regret it.

It would have to be dirt on someone laterally big, or higher up, like USADA, or a politician with power over the FDA. And I mean serious dirt. Not just run of the mill rumors that most politicians are used to dealing with. I mean career ending dirt. But what are the chance they have that? I'd say zip.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
It would have to be dirt on someone laterally big, or higher up, like USADA, or a politician with power over the FDA. And I mean serious dirt. Not just run of the mill rumors that most politicians are used to dealing with. I mean career ending dirt. But what are the chance they have that? I'd say zip.
This is a good reason why Pharmstrong hired Fabiani.

Also remember the head of the FDA stepped down. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730304575633050712742496.html

I really *really* don't know if the two have any relationship to each other, but boy is that funny timing or what?

I accidentally found this blurb: http://blogs.forbes.com/dorothypomerantz/2011/01/13/dont-hire-tiger-woods-or-lance-armstrong-for-your-ad-campaign/ Don't even need to read it. The title says it all. "Don’t Hire Tiger Woods or Lance Armstrong For Your Ad Campaign"
 
Aside from who will or will not get tossed under the bus, my curiosity remains on the details of the doping program itself-what was taken, when and in what quantities.

From a cycling fan's standpoint these are the salient points of the whole investigation-to get to the bottom of how this man was able to do the impossible without the physique or physiology to pull it off.
 
Apr 10, 2010
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Race Radio said:
I think it would be more like a DS or rider who is active today, who people think is clean, but might not have given up the old ways. Kinda like how many people were surprised with Landis' fingered Alan Lim.

The other big question is who flips first. If it were a race I would say Knaggs and Brewer are neck and neck.
Not going to be Knaggs. And Brewer doesn't know anything. He has a lot less access than he would lead you to believe.
 
May 20, 2010
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webster said:
Not going to be Knaggs. And Brewer doesn't know anything. He has a lot less access than he would lead you to believe.
Agreed. He was even below my position as lackey. Know-nothing.
 
Aug 10, 2010
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This Bus-Tossing Thread is Silly

I doubt that "Wonderboy" and "the Hog," whoever they are supposed to be, have collected any evidence that could be useful to anybody else.

All they've got are their memories, and all those memories are good for is a tell-all book. Any tell-all book that contradicts a career of doping-related statements is not going to be very destructive to anybody--especially after most of the principals will have retired by then. The book will be subject to the same vituperative criticism that Floyd is getting.

Besides, anybody with money is not going to write a tell-all doping book without carefully disguising the identity of the dopers involved. Why beg a lawsuit?

Lastly, anybody at the top of the doping food chain doesn't have much opportunity to throw anybody under the criminal bus. The feds usually aren't interested in bargaining for the testimony of the drug lord against the lowly mule.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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what about someone from Amgen or other maker of products used for PED's? I have no idea of the distribution chain for doping products but it could be someone high up has knowledge because the good stuff is tracked pretty closely.
Also maybe they throw someone in an organizational capacity under the bus. Maybe large unreported Cash going to UCI or WADA or others. Many possibilities, maybe the Postmaster General for all we know..."we needed an extra 50,000 grand for doping products to be competitive in the TDF that year so we went to the Postmaster explained everyone else does it and we would need a substantial amount of money of the books, so he cut us a personal check made out to cash. We reimbursed him from the TDF purse, here is a copy of our check made out to him...
 
TexPat said:
Agreed. He was even below my position as lackey. Know-nothing.
Race Radio said:
He does know something about hacking computers.
Doesn't matter. Tossing people like this, or some inside person at some pharma company, isn't going to benefit Lance much. That person can cop a plea and it won't be enough to deter the investigation into Lance, and that's what's at the heart of the question. Is there anything he can do, anyone he can finger, to where it will deflect the focus and turn the tide towards his being guilty somehow being acceptable, or enough dirt on someone to kill the entire investigation? I just don't see any of that happening.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Doesn't matter. Tossing people like this, or some inside person at some pharma company, isn't going to benefit Lance much. That person can cop a plea and it won't be enough to deter the investigation into Lance, and that's what's at the heart of the question. Is there anything he can do, anyone he can finger, to where it will deflect the focus and turn the tide towards his being guilty somehow being acceptable, or enough dirt on someone to kill the entire investigation? I just don't see any of that happening.
I think focus is more on keeping some people quite and/or showing they have not been completely castrated by the investigation. Sending a message.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Here is a question that could be related to the OP. Some of Weasel's group of rich friends were just pathetic dupes who were paying money to be part of the cool kids clique. Others fancied themselves hardcore cyclists. How many those were doping themselves? Those guys would have a much harder time using the ignorance defense.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Here is a question that could be related to the OP. Some of Weasel's group of rich friends were just pathetic dupes who were paying money to be part of the cool kids clique. Others fancied themselves hardcore cyclists. How many those were doping themselves? Those guys would have a much harder time using the ignorance defense.
Yes.

Someone should write an article on that....hmmmmm
 

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