I would back Pog to win Roubaix and think you are way off the mark in suggesting he doesn’t stand a chance against MVDP there.
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It's not 2-0 if the other person doesn't start or crashes out. Rog could have won 5 vuelta in a row, but if Vingo targetted it he would be a massive favourite.
If both ride next year, bookies will have Tadej as favourite.
The hills separate the two for sure. But it mvp can follow pogi to the line, he wins 10/10
crashes are a part of the sport. We don't put asterisks on Froome's TDF wins because Contador couldn't stay on his bike or on Pog's Lombardia win because Remco crashed again.
As for the odds, those are not based upon who is likely to win. They are based upon who donkeys are donking off their money on
Remco 3 0 at classica san sebastian against van der poel and pogacar.
The thread asks is who is the better classics cyclist but the poll asks a different question. For the poll I voted Pog of course. But for the thread I am not sure. I think I need to see more of both of them to make up my mind.
But I do wish people would refrain from bringing Remco into the discussion here.
But I do wish people would refrain from bringing Remco into the discussion here.
That is a difficult question. Of these two riders I would favor MVDP. I don't believe Pog can stay with MVDP when he unleashes one of those anaerobic watt bombs when MVDP is on top form. The Poggio isn't long enough or steep enough to give Pog an advantage. Pog would need to try something like Nibali in 2018. It could happen but more likely is MVDP would prevail.
But Classics are more than MSR.
Vingegaard. After poggio, he will do the descent like a mad man, just like in the TT.
Remco is the forum’s Godwin’s Law.
Well Pog in general has a better chances in Liege and Lombardia. MvDP has Roubaix and MSR. RVV is obviously a tie. I can’t see how anyone can say with any confidence it’s MvdP’s given the way Pog rode it this year. I would say Pog has a certain theoretical advantage over MvdP in Liege than MvdP has proven over Pog in MSR. And Pog is very dominant in Lombardia, more than MvdP is anywhere else. He has 5 monument victories and MvdP has 4, but one Roubaix and one additional RVV should probably count about the same as 3 Lombardias. So all in all, monuments wise, it’s really hard to set them apart.
Looking at the other classics, I don’t see a race where MvdP has a clear edge over Pog. The latter has a clear edge in Fleche Wallone. In WCRR it all depends on the route, of course, but this year’s victory and the way it was won counts a lot in my opinion.
All that being said, I still don’t know what to make of it. I guess I’m just gonna enjoy the view while it lasts and let the bikes speak for themselves (yes, I know this is getting old)…
Looking at the other classics, I don’t see a race where MvdP has a clear edge over Pog. The latter has a clear edge in Fleche Wallone. In WCRR it all depends on the route, of course, but this year’s victory and the way it was won counts a lot in my opinion.
All that being said, I still don’t know what to make of it. I guess I’m just gonna enjoy the view while it lasts and let the bikes speak for themselves (yes, I know this is getting old)…
To pull a Nibali at MSR, you have to be a rider that will be allowed a bit of leash. You can't be the most marked man in cycling.
A very diverse set of riders can win MSR so it's impossible to say who will win it next year. But in a Monte Carlo simulation, MVDP would win the most times, imo. Too hard to drop him and no one can sprint better when it matters most.
To the original question: I think we have to go with Pog because he's well ahead of MVDP in hilly classics and not that far behind in hard-man classics.
I like this. Pog certainly has to try something different, or run the hill the same but save another gear over the crest of the hill like mvp last year when he motored away.
It’s not a given MvP will be in the same form as the year before. I think Pogi will have a similar output, as he always seems to have this level
Having read the debate my original view is still a draw.
I've based this on their respective performances so far.
As who will be considered the better following the end of their careers I think its likely to Pog. My reasoning is people always remember number of wins and which races.
Pog will probably finish up with most wins,, and can potentially win all five monuments if the cards fall right.
I struggle to see MVDP ever winning Lombardy and probably Liege as well.
As the original question, what defines the better classics rider?
Perhaps we need a definition first because it may be a different thing altogether.
I've based this on their respective performances so far.
As who will be considered the better following the end of their careers I think its likely to Pog. My reasoning is people always remember number of wins and which races.
Pog will probably finish up with most wins,, and can potentially win all five monuments if the cards fall right.
I struggle to see MVDP ever winning Lombardy and probably Liege as well.
As the original question, what defines the better classics rider?
Perhaps we need a definition first because it may be a different thing altogether.
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It's also worth noting van der Poel had 0 monuments when he was pogs current age.
Yes, MSR and this year’s WCRR are exactly the same. Very similar route and it is ridden in the same way. Hours and hours of hard racing in both of them🙄
Pogi is better. Wait for a climbing WC to see Pogi winning the rainbow jersey. Pog can contest and fight for the win in classics MVP is the main favourite. 2023 worlds were perfect for MVP and even an exausted Pogi (after the Tour) could be on the podium there. Tell me if a peak MVP could be in contention in Liege, Lombardia or a climbing WC with Pogi? I don't think so.
However, I must say when MVP is in peak shape he is unbeatable in his own terrain (except for 2023 RV, I don't even know how he was dropped there).
However, I must say when MVP is in peak shape he is unbeatable in his own terrain (except for 2023 RV, I don't even know how he was dropped there).
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