Who is the better cyclist between Pogacar and Vingegaard?

[Ilmaestro99]

Remco

Remco has 3 Classica Sebastian and Pogacar and vinggeggard has combined 0

Remco has won la vuelta and pogacar and Vingeggard haven't.

Remco is a world champion Timetrialiest and he won also world championships road race which neither pogacar or Jonas vingegard has done. This means he is literally the best of the world.

Remco won 2x Liege. More than pogacar and Jonas combined again. The oldest and hardest race in cycling .

Remco has more than double the Belgian championships than pogacar and vinegaaard combined.

Thanks for bringing objectivety back to the thread. Remco is the best rider since the GOAT vincenzo Nibali

 

[yesdanielbryan]

Pogacar by far. Poll suggests the overwhelming majority of forumites agree.

What do you think are the aspects that make Pogacar a better cyclist than Vingegaard?

 

[shadowrider]

Who won the Tour de France this year and last year? Who won Velo d'Or this year? There is your answer

 

[shadowrider]

Have you compared the palmares of both riders ? There is your answer. But looking at the Tour. Vingegaard is only riding small stage races in function of the Tour. And this year, for once, another GT, the Vuelta. But he is not riding one-day races, classics, monuments, worlds...... So, at the start of a GT Vingegaard has a huge advantage against f.i. Pogacar, Evenepoel etc. Only because the Tour (and other GT's) is awarded so many UCI-points, Vingegaard is able to end as one of the topriders of the year. But of course, Pogacar is the real number one. Evenepoel the second best (other years Van Aert).

 

[gregrowlerson]

Remco has 3 Classica Sebastian and Pogacar and vinggeggard has combined 0

Remco has won la vuelta and pogacar and Vingeggard haven't.

Remco is a world champion Timetrialiest and he won also world championships road race which neither pogacar or Jonas vingegard has done. This means he is literally the best of the world.

Remco won 2x Liege. More than pogacar and Jonas combined again. The oldest and hardest race in cycling .

Remco has more than double the Belgian championships than pogacar and vinegaaard combined.

Thanks for bringing objectivety back to the thread. Remco is the best rider since the GOAT vincenzo Nibali

The Belgian championships settles it for me.

 

[Volderke]

The Belgian championships settles it for me.

Many people don't know, but it's actually the open Belgian championships.

The only reason so few foreigners are competing, is because they know they don't stand a chance.
The few occasions a foreigner competed, he didn't finish the race and thus doesn't show in the results...

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Who is the better cyclist between Pogacar and Vingegaard?​

Well show us the picture of Pogacar and Vingegaard with a better rider between them, and we'll see if we can identify him (or her).

 

[Bolder]

To spice things up, I voted Vingegaard, with Pog more versatile. He convincingly and comprehensively beat Pogacar in the world's biggest race, one that Pog was supposed to win like 6 times in a row. In fact Pogacar may never win a GT again if Vingegaard is racing. And he won't likely win many week-long stage races if Vingegaard comes prepared. So that leaves one-day races, where Pog is definitely better, but where I believe Vingegaard has potential to win hilly or mountain ones like Lombardia, SS or LBL.

If Vingegaard remains a GT specialist, we'll never know what he can do in many other types of races, of course, but I think he's more versatile than we think.

At the moment, Vingegaard is the best GT rider, the best climber and the best hilly time trialist, and probably the best week stage racer, or at least equal to Roglic and Pogacar in that respect.

Pog is the best Lombardia rider and can surprise classics guys like MvdP on his day. (exaggerated for effect...)

Ergo, my vote.

 

[Blanco]

Right now, in this moment, they're really close. I would give a little edge to Pogacar due to his versatility.
If we speak who had a better career until now, there's really no contest. Pogacar won everything that Vingegaard did, and so much more...

 

[Cookster15]

What do you think are the aspects that make Pogacar a better cyclist than Vingegaard?

Pog is way more versatile.

Plus, IMO, Vingegaard would not beat Pog in grand tours if not for his team. Pog won the TdF in 2020 despite JVs overwhelming strength. Arguably he did the same in 2021 . UAE are better now than back then, but still weaker collectively than Jumbo. Even with the departure of Roglic.

I always wonder how Vingegaard would fare if the situation was reversed?

 

[Froome]

Plus, IMO, Vingegaard would not beat Pog in grand tours if not for his team.

That's not true. He won because he was individually better, look at the TT for example.

 

[Cookster15]

That's not true. He won because he was individually better, look at the TT for example.

TT is affected hugely by how fresh you are. How fresh you are is affected hugely by how well your team protects you on flat and intermediate stages, not just the mountains.

 

[proffate]

That's not true. He won because he was individually better, look at the TT for example.

Pog's team let him switch bikes for some unknowable reason. What other behind-the-scenes buffoonery are we unaware of?

Compare to JV which has cornered the supply of marginal gains drink mix and has Vingo insufflating it every night before bedtime.

 

[Ranagazoo]

I don't necessarily think Vingegaard is a better climber or TTer than Pogacar, he's just better at sustaining his level for 3 weeks. He gets stronger and stronger while others tire.

Pog's best chance to beat him at the Tour is to ride boring and conservative for the first 2 weeks, but that's not his nature and that's why he's great

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Pog's team let him switch bikes for some unknowable reason. What other behind-the-scenes buffoonery are we unaware of?

Well, they had done tests there before and apparently Pogacar was faster in the tests with a bike change. If that’s what happened it does makes sense to repeat it in the race.

To be honest I think that whole bike change thing was blown completely out of proportions. Pogacar was completely battered by Vingegaard long before the bike change and it’s not like that bike change costed him a lot of seconds.

 

[Cookster15]

Well, they had done tests there before and apparently Pogacar was faster in the tests with a bike change. If that’s what happened it does makes sense to repeat it in the race.

To be honest I think that whole bike change thing was blown completely out of proportions. Pogacar was completely battered by Vingegaard long before the bike change and it’s not like that bike change costed him a lot of seconds.

Yes, but we are all forgetting the LBL crash, wrist injury and interrupted prep. An interrupted prep which obviously caught up with him on stage 17 when he collapsed after the effort he put in the day before.

 

[Peter von]

Depends what you value in a cyclist.

It sure seems Vingegaard is slightly better at 3-week stage races, meanwhile Pogi is significantly better at classics.

But Olivier Giroud isn't a better footballer than Messi, just because he is a significantly better goal keeper.

So it entirely depends on where your goal posts are.

I would say Pogi because he the second best classics rider* as well as the second best GT rider. But if you ask Armstrong or Indurein how many TdF wins they would trade for a RVV or Amstel... their answer might be zero.

*I might even be generous to MvdP here

 

[Cassirer]

To make the answer less clear one might enter semantics and ask what "better cyclist" means. Vinges spectacular cornering in the already infamous TT comes to mind, but the no-hand-strangeness might be a stain on his palmares. Pogi no doubt has great intuition on where to be when etc. and seems very un-crash-prone (in spite of LBL), but probably is not a real demon descender (in spite of lombardia).

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Hypothetical question as long as not both riders fill the calendar with both monuments and GTs.
Pre Vuelta I was convinced Vingo would have a hard time ind 3rd week, but he proved me wrong.
Regarding monuments Pogi is the clear favourite.
So my immediate guess is the first option "of what could have been".

 

[Nick2413]

There should be a round robin tournament where both race all WT races over the course of 5 years and add up their wins at the end, weighting the races relatively equally.

 

[proffate]

Well, they had done tests there before and apparently Pogacar was faster in the tests with a bike change. If that’s what happened it does makes sense to repeat it in the race.

More important than what happened during the race is what happened before it. It makes absolutely no sense for a TT bike to be 15+ seconds slower up a short climb like that (especially followed by a false flat) based solely on equipment differences. What should have happened is that they tested with Pog far enough in advance to actually do something about it if his TT bike climbing is that slow, like modify his position or tell him to practice or whatever.

To be honest I think that whole bike change thing was blown completely out of proportions. Pogacar was completely battered by Vingegaard long before the bike change and it’s not like that bike change costed him a lot of seconds.

My point is that UAE comes off as a team of marginal losses, and that the team does affect performance in a TT.

 

[AmRacer]

More important than what happened during the race is what happened before it. It makes absolutely no sense for a TT bike to be 15+ seconds slower up a short climb like that (especially followed by a false flat) based solely on equipment differences. What should have happened is that they tested with Pog far enough in advance to actually do something about it if his TT bike climbing is that slow, like modify his position or tell him to practice or whatever.


My point is that UAE comes off as a team of marginal losses, and that the team does affect performance in a TT.

Slow? It's all relative. Teddy's best TT was Rogla's nightmare.

 

[Froome]

Slow? It's all relative. Teddy's best TT was Rogla's nightmare.

I think pogacar's TT this year was at least, the same level of 2020 if we forget what Vingegaard did.

Pogacar won 1 min and 13 s to van aert this year in 22 km.

Pogacar won 1 min and 31 s to van aert in 2020, but in 36 km.


He won 1 min and 30 s this year to cavagna in 22 km, in 2020 he won 1 min and 59 s to cavagna, but in 36 km.

In comparation he won more s/km this year to some opponents.

 

[ice&fire]

Is there any cyclist between Pogacar and Vingegaard?
I'd say everyone is well behind them.

 

[Unchained]

Remco

And if killer instinct is a factor. I am all in on Remco..Pog shows signs but is not as hard of a man.