Who is your Men's Rider of the Decade?

[Red Rick]

Good for you.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evv5cKN5eAc

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhCxLglE0X4

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgGcSXf4x04



All completely regular stuff...

Impressive. Also small races.

 

[tobydawq]

Impressive. Also small races.

Yeah, no.

 

[rick james]

the poster not either picking Froome or Sagan are basing their picks on something outwth cycling

oh and the correct answer is Froome

 

[Blanco]

Yeah, I often hear around here about lots and lots of small races won by Sagan and Valverde particularly. There's a reason they won all those races, it's simple, because they can! They too, like everybody else have couple of big goals for the season, but their level is so high they can win even without specially preparing for that, which is not the case with others. The truth is we are blessed to watch such natural talents, and I think we have another one coming - Mathieu Van Der Poel.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, I often hear around here about lots and lots of small races won by Sagan and Valverde particularly. There's a reason they won all those races, it's simple, because they can! They too, like everybody else have couple of big goals for the season, but their level is so high they can win even without specially preparing for that, which is not the case with others. The truth is we are blessed to watch such natural talents, and I think we have another one coming - Mathieu Van Der Poel.

So why is everybody dismissing Cavendish again?

Let's put it this way. Nobody brags that Federer has won more ATP 250s than Nadal or Djokovic..

I see a lot of x rider is spectacular to watch especially about Sagan who gets the majority of his wins in bunch sprints, while pure sprinters get completely dismissed for that.

It's also very easy to be 'entertaining' when you don't ride GC in stage races and you can go all yolo in most of it.

 

[Red Rick]

the poster not either picking Froome or Sagan are basing their picks on something outwth cycling

oh and the correct answer is Froome

Can at least get 5 points for putting Froome ahead of Sagan?

 

[Blanco]

So why is everybody dismissing Cavendish again?

Let's put it this way. Nobody brags that Federer has won more ATP 250s than Nadal or Djokovic..

I see a lot of x rider is spectacular to watch especially about Sagan who gets the majority of his wins in bunch sprints, while pure sprinters get completely dismissed for that.

It's also very easy to be 'entertaining' when you don't ride GC in stage races and you can go all yolo in most of it.

Let's put it this way, what if Djokovic for example has 113 tournaments won, and Federer has 50, and Federer has two Majors more, do you really think nobody would mention all those Masters 1000, ATP 500 and ATP 250 titles Djokovic has?!

 

[Koronin]

Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, but when he retired he owned virtually ever passing record there was and held many of them until fairly recently in a league that today is much more passer friendly than he when he played. He's even recently said in today's pass happy league he could easily have thrown for 5,000 plus yards per season, which was unheard of when he played.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's put it this way, what if Djokovic for example has 113 tournaments won, and Federer has 50, and Federer has two Majors more, do you really think nobody would mention all those Masters 1000, ATP 500 and ATP 250 titles Djokovic has?!

It's why I'm going as far as considering races like FW, AGR, and the GCs at PN, TA, etc, as well as considering stages at Grand Tours. Anything less? Please. It's nice to win stuff, but that's it.

Nobody considers Jimmy Connors to be top 5 of all time.

 

[tobydawq]

So, if Sagan had been a second faster on the Tirreno TT in 2016, he would have been the more obvious winner of this because he then also had a major stage race on his palmares?

Also, Cavendish could do one thing, it doesn't make any sense to compare him to Sagan...

 

[Mayomaniac]

If you're just looking at the number of big wins Gilbert has a claim.
Won 4 different Monuments + WC in that timespan, finished 3rd in the one that he didn't win. Has also won AGR 4 (times)), Strade Bianche, FW, BP (2x) and finished on the Podium in races like E3 and G-W.
He's the best one day racer that we have seen this century and even if he had 2 bad years (2015 & 2016) you could say that he deserves to be considered.

 

[Blanco]

It's why I'm going as far as considering races like FW, AGR, and the GCs at PN, TA, etc, as well as considering stages at Grand Tours. Anything less? Please. It's nice to win stuff, but that's it.

Nobody considers Jimmy Connors to be top 5 of all time.

But they consider Rod Laver, who won 200 tournaments.

 

[Bonimenier]

So why is everybody dismissing Cavendish again?

Cavendish actually won less races this decade than Sagan. Think it's also safe to say he won bigger races. And Cavendish has been nowhere the last 3 years of the decade, while Sagan performed pretty much every year.

Amount of wins isn't everything, but the combination of big wins and a lot of wins says something.

 

[boneshaker]

Voted for Sagan., second Valverde, third Froome.

 

[neevosh]

I voted for Nibali based on his overall variety of palmares. 4 GTs, 2 Monuments, plus a number of other wins and podiums.

Valverde - A close 2nd for me. Prolific winner and consistent GT rider, but never a GT winner.
Froome - The dominant stage racer of this decade, but not as well rounded.
Sagan - Always consistent and frequent winner, but when I think about him, the first thought is always that he didn't live up to his potential.

 

[tobydawq]

Imagine if Sagan had had the Classics equivalent of a Sky train in front of him during his career.

I think it's dumb to criticise him for not winning many more monuments than he has. Okay, MSR 2013 is 100 % on him but otherwise, he doesn't have an easy life, and you don't just automatically win cobbled monuments by being the strongest (not anymore, that is), like you do Grand Tours. You have to be far stronger, and you have to be lucky that stronger teams don't ride you into the ground.

 

[boneshaker]

When did Valverde or Sagan? Unless you narrow down their specialties a LOT they never really dominated and you might as well argue Gilbert or Cavendish over them.

Or, you can say that their specialty is universality. The PCS All time ranking shows it clearly


PCS All time ranking

7 Valverde Alejandro 1746.5
21 Sagan Peter 1216.9
25 Boonen Tom 1120.4
27 Contador Alberto 1058.4
28 Gilbert Philippe 1049.2
29 Cancellara Fabian 1011.2
30 Cavendish Mark 1008.5
36 Nibali Vincenzo 916.8
39 Froome Chris 897.6
65 Van Avermaet Greg 739.5
100 Kittel Marcel 578.2

ProCyclingStats Best Rider Ranking

Ranking of the best riders of this moment, currently led by with 4771 points before (2399) and (2270).

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[boneshaker]

For all Sagans hype. He only won 2 monuments, and that's after Cancellara and Boonen fell off the wagon in those races.

He's one of the greats in cycling this decade, but I think he often gets way more credit than he should get for the results he gets. Yes, he's basically the only rider that combines ability to win flat bunch sprints, cobbled classics and even being a top puncheur, but he has not converted that in winning Sanremo, nor has he ever done anything in the Ardennes.

He has 3rd and 4th at Amstel. Also, he has several good results in Ardennes like stages

I previously mentioned Sagan has 5 major wins. I didn't exclude them. I simply didn't talk abou them.

As for the green. Nobody is mentioning Contador, Froome, or Valverde winning minor classifications in GTs. I wonder why.

Sagan doesn't lead this group for wins in GTs/Monuments/WC/OGs/. He doesn't lead this group in podiums in these races either, he has less than half of Nibali and Valverde. He also has limited versatility in these races, with all wins and podiums being one day races. He also doesn't lead in 2nd tier races.

The only thing where Sagan leads is GT stages. He has 1 more than Nibali.

If you extend the meaning of results from wins to podiums or top tens, then the Sagan's credit seems to be reasonable. For example his lead in TdF stage podiums/top tens is huge.


Name Wins Podiums Top 10s
Fabian CANCELLARA 7 17 29
Mark CAVENDISH 30 37 50
Alberto CONTADOR 3 9 28
Christopher FROOME 8 18 29
Philippe GILBERT 1 5 21
Marcel KITTEL 14 18 22
Vincenzo NIBALI 6 12 30
Peter SAGAN 12 45 76
Greg VAN AVERMAET 2 7 30
Alejandro VALVERDE 2 10 26


If I recall correctly, Froome fought for PC at Vuelta when he already has Tour-Vuelta double.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Testing the bounds of reality indeed.

To be fair, it was probably case closed if this thread had closed before July 2010

As for the guy comparing Connors to Laver: Rocket Rod is a different kettle of fish. He won 12 grand slam titles despite missing half of his career due to turning professional. And he did the actual GRAND SLAM, not once, but twice. Thus some will always consider him in the tennis GOAT conversation.

 

[oldcrank]

the poster not either picking Froome or Sagan are basing their picks on something outwth cycling

oh and the correct answer is Froome

I agree. Winning the World's three years in a row is quite a major accomplishment, but winning three Tours in a row and then continuing on to "unify the belts" and hold all three Heavyweight Belts simultaneously easily trumps it.

 

[Climbing]

Nibali/Valverde, rest is a bunch of one trick pony.
It's almost there already, but if Vincenzo wins OG or WC next year, pretty much legend status.

 

[jaylew]

the poster not either picking Froome or Sagan are basing their picks on something outwth cycling

oh and the correct answer is Froome

There is no "correct" answer. There are several I wouldn't argue with anyone for picking. Firstly, the poll asks for "rider of the decade" which could be interpreted many different ways. Even if it said "best rider of the decade" we all value different things. Wins, wins in top tier events, podiums, high placings, consistency, versatility...

This was really, really hard. I tried my best to be impartial and when I initially saw the poll, I assumed my answer would be Froome or Sagan but I wound up going with Nibali which surprised me.

Had to eliminate Valverde for having no results the 1st two years of the decade due to the clinic issues as well as many key results being in the 00s

Gilbert had a few too many relatively quieter years for me but 4/5 monuments + Worlds is fantastic.

Sagan was close. Having been in the rainbow stripes for 3 years straight was HUGE. Also, he was pretty much the poster boy for the decade and lived up to it for the most part. Still, I feel like he let a few too many opportunities slip by.

Froome was also really close and hands down the stage racer of the decade but had no one day results to speak of, two nothing years, and also a clinic issue.

Cav, Gilbert, Valverde, and Sagan also wore the WC jersey at least one year which for me is a big plus for a Rider of the Decade title but I still picked Nibali because:

Not one year of the decade was he not at least 2nd in a monument or GT. That's amazing to me.

2010: 1st Vuelta, 3rd Giro
2011: 2nd Giro
2012: 3rd Tour, 3rd MSR, 2nd Liège
2013: 1st Giro, 2nd Vuelta
2014: 1st Tour
2015: 1st Lombardia
2016: 1st Giro
2017: 1st Lombardia, 3rd Giro, 2nd Vuelta
2018: 1st MSR
2019: 2nd Giro

He did that across 3 different monuments as well as winning all 3 GTs. Obviously he won many additional one days, stage races, GT stages, and even TTs.

He showed panache and attacking spirit going up and downhill, in bad weather, and even on cobbles. He certainly was one of the faces of the peloton.

Some have pointed out that he was never the #1 rider in the peloton or the most talented at one thing. For me, that's another plus. To have achieved what he did this decade despite that is remarkable. I still remember back on this forum when we were talking about his potential vs that of Kreuziger, and even Gesink. I don't think many thought he would be the one of the 3 to have the greatest success.

 

[Blanco]

To be fair, it was probably case closed if this thread had closed before July 2010

As for the guy comparing Connors to Laver: Rocket Rod is a different kettle of fish. He won 12 grand slam titles despite missing half of his career due to turning professional. And he did the actual GRAND SLAM, not once, but twice. Thus some will always consider him in the tennis GOAT conversation.

Yeah, yeah, I know who the Rocket is, what he achieved and what kind of player he was. My point was another. Red Rick pointed to Jimmy Connors as a player with most tournaments won, and pointed to the fact that he is not considered a top 5 player of all-time. I wanted to clarify that it is not Connors who holds that record (in the Open Era he does btw), but Laver. And I wanted to point that number of wins matter a bit (which is relevant for discussion on this thread). I know, of course that it mainly isn't sheer number of wins which makes Laver all-time great, but quality of his wins, and also level of his dominance, but still...

 

[Blanco]

I still picked Nibali because:

Not one year of the decade was he not at least 2nd in a monument or GT. That's amazing to me.

2010: 1st Vuelta, 3rd Giro
2011: 2nd Giro
2012: 3rd Tour, 3rd MSR, 2nd Liège
2013: 1st Giro, 2nd Vuelta
2014: 1st Tour
2015: 1st Lombardia
2016: 1st Giro
2017: 1st Lombardia, 3rd Giro, 2nd Vuelta
2018: 1st MSR
2019: 2nd Giro

Here's something similar, although a little longer :

2005: 2nd Worlds
2006: 1st Liege, 2nd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds
2007: 2nd Liege
2008: 1st Liege
2009: 1st Vuelta
2010: 3rd Liege
2011: did not ride due to suspension
2012: 2nd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds
2013: 3rd Liege, 3rd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds, 2nd Lombardia
2014: 2nd Liege, 3rd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds, 2nd Lombardia
2015: 1st Liege, 3rd Tour
2016: 3rd Giro
2017: 1st Liege
2018: 1st Worlds
2019: 2nd Vuelta, 2nd Lombardia

 

[SHAD0W93]

Here's something similar, although a little longer :

2005: 2nd Worlds
2006: 1st Liege, 2nd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds
2007: 2nd Liege
2008: 1st Liege
2009: 1st Vuelta
2010: 3rd Liege
2011: did not ride due to suspension
2012: 2nd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds
2013: 3rd Liege, 3rd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds, 2nd Lombardia
2014: 2nd Liege, 3rd Vuelta, 3rd Worlds, 2nd Lombardia
2015: 1st Liege, 3rd Tour
2016: 3rd Giro
2017: 1st Liege
2018: 1st Worlds
2019: 2nd Vuelta, 2nd Lombardia

But it would only be from 2010 to present for the purpose of this thread.