Who should be Vincenzo Nibali's Chief Lt. in the Tour?

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Landa may well be a better climber than Nibali

This has been also said about Aru. He looks ballistic in Giro because the field is quite mediocre with Aru constantly struggling and dropped by Trofimov, Amador on fourth, the great Dutch sensation turned from break contender to genuine mountain goat and the eternal Hesjedal. Porte is already gone and Uran is not worth mentioning. Contador is either riding only for GC, holding back for Le Tour, not in the greatest shape or he can't climb as he used to do.

Perhaps you're right. I expected more impressive numbers up the Mortirolo. They were slow.

Of course they were slow, Contador's was quite good though despite riding it alone . The peloton was going at an infernal pace just before the climb, "an incredible watts/kg average on the flat " said Contador. They were all exhausted.

Also the mid 90's times are never gonna be beaten, different era, many ways to enhance stuff.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Landa may well be a better climber than Nibali

This has been also said about Aru. He looks ballistic in Giro because the field is quite mediocre with Aru constantly struggling and dropped by Trofimov, Amador on fourth, the great Dutch sensation turned from break contender to genuine mountain goat and the eternal Hesjedal. Porte is already gone and Uran is not worth mentioning.

Yeah, just like Nibali looked ballistic against Pinot, bardet and péraud. Uran, old Evans, Mozquerra and Peter Velits. You welcome.

lol, you adore contador so much that almost hate all his opponents. they are all underrated for you. seriously, do you find yourself objective?

The thing is, I state facts. Do you have anything to say against the fact Nibali is always winning against poor field? Certainly not.

And yes I find myself objective. I'm not underrating anyone, Nibali and Quintana are the ones who are overrated.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

Landa may well be a better climber than Nibali

This has been also said about Aru. He looks ballistic in Giro because the field is quite mediocre with Aru constantly struggling and dropped by Trofimov, Amador on fourth, the great Dutch sensation turned from break contender to genuine mountain goat and the eternal Hesjedal. Porte is already gone and Uran is not worth mentioning.

Yeah, just like Nibali looked ballistic against Pinot, bardet and péraud. Uran, old Evans, Mozquerra and Peter Velits. You welcome.

lol, you adore contador so much that almost hate all his opponents. they are all underrated for you. seriously, do you find yourself objective?

The thing is, I state facts. Do you have anything to say against the fact Nibali is always winning against poor field? Certainly not.

And yes I find myself objective. I'm not underrating anyone, Nibali and Quintana are the ones who are overrated.

What a poor professional cycling field we have in the world, as no GT win is worth to mention if AC and Froomy are not part of the race. Why oh why don't they just ride all GT's one-on-one because all the rest are overrated mediocers anyway?

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

What a poor professional cycling field we have in the world, as no GT win is worth to mention if AC and Froomy are not part of the race. Why oh why don't they just ride all GT's one-on-one because all the rest are overrated mediocers anyway?

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

That's not to say that his GT wins are not mentionable. He's a great champion in his own right and I hope he'll finally prove that he can stick with the best in Le Tour.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

What a poor professional cycling field we have in the world, as no GT win is worth to mention if AC and Froomy are not part of the race. Why oh why don't they just ride all GT's one-on-one because all the rest are overrated mediocers anyway?

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

That's not to say that his GT wins are not mentionable. He's a great champion in his own right and I hope he'll finally prove that he can stick with the best in Le Tour.

OK, we need to take one GT out of the calendar, as whoever wins it, is not worthy of glory because AC and Froomy are not there.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

What a poor professional cycling field we have in the world, as no GT win is worth to mention if AC and Froomy are not part of the race. Why oh why don't they just ride all GT's one-on-one because all the rest are overrated mediocers anyway?

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

That's not to say that his GT wins are not mentionable. He's a great champion in his own right and I hope he'll finally prove that he can stick with the best in Le Tour.

OK, we need to take one GT out of the calendar, as whoever wins it, is not worthy of glory because AC and Froomy are not there.

That's not necessary. Nibali will get plenty of time to prove himself in the Tour

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

What a poor professional cycling field we have in the world, as no GT win is worth to mention if AC and Froomy are not part of the race. Why oh why don't they just ride all GT's one-on-one because all the rest are overrated mediocers anyway?

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

That's not to say that his GT wins are not mentionable. He's a great champion in his own right and I hope he'll finally prove that he can stick with the best in Le Tour.

This has been debated ad nauseam so I won't go much further. All I would like to add is that since 2010 he podiumed every single GT he raced, eight to be more precise, bar Vuelta Froome/Cobo, won three, he is a much better GT rider since with Astana and every time he started the tours was against the best field targeting the respective races. If some of those riders did not manage to cross the finish line it is really not his problem.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

What a poor professional cycling field we have in the world, as no GT win is worth to mention if AC and Froomy are not part of the race. Why oh why don't they just ride all GT's one-on-one because all the rest are overrated mediocers anyway?

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

That's not to say that his GT wins are not mentionable. He's a great champion in his own right and I hope he'll finally prove that he can stick with the best in Le Tour.

OK, we need to take one GT out of the calendar, as whoever wins it, is not worthy of glory because AC and Froomy are not there.

That's not necessary. Nibali will get plenty of time to prove himself in the Tour

Not talking about Nibali (solely), talking about anyone who might win GT when the dynamic-duo is not there. You should really pay bit more respect to the others in the sport as well.

 

[Mozart92]

Re: Re:

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

2010 / At the giro he also beated Evans one year before the australian's success at the Tour. Then he won the Vuelta, not arrived 2nd.
2011 / Contador's victories were all voided that year remember?
2012 / Third behind the gold medal winner of the Olympiads and Froome? He wasn't the best but his two adversaries were that year the strongest riders of the world.
2013 / No arguments here, an "easy" win. Even if a GT is never easy though.
2014 /

He wasn't dropped by Contador. He lost 5 meters just before the finishing line. He claimed that his chains dropped. and it wasn't worth to sprint for a couple of seconds. Besides he had already 2 minutes of advantage that he gained with an attack on the cobbles (beating, among the others, Cancellara).

Furthermore he already beated both Contador and Froome during the two Tirreno-Adriatico he won.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

2010 / At the giro he also beated Evans one year before the australian's success at the Tour. Then he won the Vuelta, not arrived 2nd.
2011 / Contador's victories were all voided that year remember?
2012 / Third behind the gold medal winner of the Olympiads and Froome? He wasn't the best but his two adversaries were that year the strongest riders of the world.
2013 / No arguments here, an "easy" win. Even if a GT is never easy though.
2014 /

He wasn't dropped by Contador. He lost 5 meters just before the finishing line. He claimed that his chains dropped. and it wasn't worth to sprint for a couple of seconds. Besides he had already 2 minutes of advantage that he gained with an attack on the cobbles (beating, among the others, Cancellara).

Furthermore he already beated both Contador and Froome during the two Tirreno-Adriatico he won.

What? What kind of arguments are these? He beat Evans at the Giro 2010 then what? He fuckin lost lol, he didn't win the GC.
Then he won the Vuelta 10' against a poor field, showing himself average lvl.

Contador being stripped off his Giro 11', is that an argument to show that Nibali is on par with the best ? How cheap are you exactly? By the way AC is still the winner of that Giro, there are simple books and there are memories and what happened on the road and videos, and pictures and the man himself.

2012, okay he lost again against the best. You still didn't prove anything.

And yes, he was dropped by a freewheeling Contador on Gerardmer, he was pulling faces and did not just drop 5 meters.

Then there's the classic Tirreno 13', as always brought out by any Nibali fan who respect himself. Froome having an off day literally and Contador in the worst form of his life, and worst season in any possible way. Clearly Nibali showed right there that he is the best stage racer.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Re: Who should be Vicenzo Nibali's Chief Lieutenant in the T

Imagine Astana decide on this team for the Tour (they won't, I know): Nibali, Aru, Landa, Fuglsang, Cataldo, Kangert, Scarponi, Tiralongo, Taaramae (and I didn't even find a spot for Luis Leon Sanchez )...... To me, that would be the most powerful team ever to ride the tour.... and one that would seriously trouble both Sky, Movistar and Saxo, with attacks coming left and right on every stage with climbs.

 

[Mozart92]

Re: Re:

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

2010 / At the giro he also beated Evans one year before the australian's success at the Tour. Then he won the Vuelta, not arrived 2nd.
2011 / Contador's victories were all voided that year remember?
2012 / Third behind the gold medal winner of the Olympiads and Froome? He wasn't the best but his two adversaries were that year the strongest riders of the world.
2013 / No arguments here, an "easy" win. Even if a GT is never easy though.
2014 /

He wasn't dropped by Contador. He lost 5 meters just before the finishing line. He claimed that his chains dropped. and it wasn't worth to sprint for a couple of seconds. Besides he had already 2 minutes of advantage that he gained with an attack on the cobbles (beating, among the others, Cancellara).

Furthermore he already beated both Contador and Froome during the two Tirreno-Adriatico he won.

What? What kind of arguments are these? He beat Evans at the Giro 2010 then what? He **** lost lol, he didn't win the GC.
Then he won the Vuelta 10' against a poor field, showing himself average lvl.

Contador being stripped off his Giro 11', is that an argument to show that Nibali is on par with the best ? How cheap are you exactly? By the way AC is still the winner of that Giro, there are simple books and there are memories and what happened on the road and videos, and pictures and the man himself.

2012, okay he lost again against the best. You still didn't prove anything.

And yes, he was dropped by a freewheeling Contador on Gerardmer, he was pulling faces and did not just drop 5 meters.

Then there's the classic Tirreno 13', as always brought out by any Nibali fan who respect himself. Froome having an off day literally and Contador in the worst form of his life, and worst season in any possible way. Clearly Nibali showed right there that he is the best stage racer.

Learn some manners please. I haven't insulted you and I expect you to do the same.

Those are valid arguments to me. If Contador cheated in 2011 you can't that as a example that he was stronger than Nibali. Maybe he was but if you don't play by the rules then you can't prove it. Furthermore Nibali was still growing those years, he probably matured between the 2013 and 2014. You said that he never won a GT against the best. During the last Tour Contador and Froome were at the start. Who won the Tour? Bad luck, crashes... The strongest rider is not necessarily the one with more watts. Other things are part of the equation. Unless you consider this stage an isolate episode, I suppose we'll have to wait July for an answer.
To me, that day Nibali proved to be better than his competitors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Tour_de_France,_Stage_1_to_Stage_11#Stage_5

 

[coimbrawu]

Fuglsang, Scarponi, Grivko, Westra, Taaramae

 

[Von Mises]

Re:

Fuglsang, Scarponi, Grivko, Westra, Taaramae

And Kangert probably. Few days ago Kangert in one interview almost confirmed that he is going Tour.

 

[Jalgratas95]

Tanel Kangert.

During 2 last Nibali GT wins Kangert has been helping him.

 

[Stilletto]

Iglinsky?
Brajkovic?

 

[jens_attacks]

no, he should get ready to dominate la vuelta

he also said that he won't do le tour anyway

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

What a poor professional cycling field we have in the world, as no GT win is worth to mention if AC and Froomy are not part of the race. Why oh why don't they just ride all GT's one-on-one because all the rest are overrated mediocers anyway?

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

That's not to say that his GT wins are not mentionable. He's a great champion in his own right and I hope he'll finally prove that he can stick with the best in Le Tour.

He proved it last year at the Tour. Just because AC and Froome forgot how to ride and how gravity works doesn't mean he had no competition. To win a GT you must finish it.

 

[infeXio]

Re: Re:

It's not untrue though. Nibali has not won a single GT against the best GT riders.
2010 - Mosquera, a good climber but nothing extraordinary, comes second in La Vuelta.
2011 - When facing Contador in the Giro, Nibali is without any chance of victory.
2012 - Admittedly not Nibali's best year, but he was still destroyed by Wiggins and Froome in Le Tour
2013 - Uran Uran and a fading Evans offers the most competition for Nibali
2014 - Wins Le Tour without competition from AC, Quintana and Froome (Gets dropped on the one short climb he battles AC)

2010 / At the giro he also beated Evans one year before the australian's success at the Tour. Then he won the Vuelta, not arrived 2nd.
2011 / Contador's victories were all voided that year remember?
2012 / Third behind the gold medal winner of the Olympiads and Froome? He wasn't the best but his two adversaries were that year the strongest riders of the world.
2013 / No arguments here, an "easy" win. Even if a GT is never easy though.
2014 /

He wasn't dropped by Contador. He lost 5 meters just before the finishing line. He claimed that his chains dropped. and it wasn't worth to sprint for a couple of seconds. Besides he had already 2 minutes of advantage that he gained with an attack on the cobbles (beating, among the others, Cancellara).

Furthermore he already beated both Contador and Froome during the two Tirreno-Adriatico he won.

What? What kind of arguments are these? He beat Evans at the Giro 2010 then what? He **** lost lol, he didn't win the GC.
Then he won the Vuelta 10' against a poor field, showing himself average lvl.

Contador being stripped off his Giro 11', is that an argument to show that Nibali is on par with the best ? How cheap are you exactly? By the way AC is still the winner of that Giro, there are simple books and there are memories and what happened on the road and videos, and pictures and the man himself.

2012, okay he lost again against the best. You still didn't prove anything.

And yes, he was dropped by a freewheeling Contador on Gerardmer, he was pulling faces and did not just drop 5 meters.

Then there's the classic Tirreno 13', as always brought out by any Nibali fan who respect himself. Froome having an off day literally and Contador in the worst form of his life, and worst season in any possible way. Clearly Nibali showed right there that he is the best stage racer.

Learn some manners please. I haven't insulted you and I expect you to do the same.

Those are valid arguments to me. If Contador cheated in 2011 you can't that as a example that he was stronger than Nibali. Maybe he was but if you don't play by the rules then you can't prove it. Furthermore Nibali was still growing those years, he probably matured between the 2013 and 2014. You said that he never won a GT against the best. During the last Tour Contador and Froome were at the start. Who won the Tour? Bad luck, crashes... The strongest rider is not necessarily the one with more watts. Other things are part of the equation. Unless you consider this stage an isolate episode, I suppose we'll have to wait July for an answer.
To me, that day Nibali proved to be better than his competitors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Tour_de_France,_Stage_1_to_Stage_11#Stage_5

Contador got his 2011 Giro-win removed because of the Clenbuterol-positive in 2010, not because of incident in 2011, let alone that giro.

 

[qwer]

nibali won vuelta 2010 only because anton fell

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

Iglinsky?
Brajkovic?

Iglinsky - both of them - are banned.
Brajkovic is on UHC.

 

[mihhint]

Who should be Vicenzo Nibali's Chief Lieutenant in the Tour?

Same guy to when he won Giro 2 years ago and Tour last year. Appears to have ridden himself into fine enough form this Giro.