Who should lead Liquigas in 2010?

[craig1985]

Much like Astana this year when they had Alberto Contador, Lance Armstrong, Levi Leipheimer, and last but not least Andreas Kloden, well next year Liquigas will have Ivan Basso, Franco Pellizotti, Vincenzo Nibali, and Roman Kreuziger. Only difference they have a certain Texan twittering like a girl at a certain person from Pinto.

So out of the four, who would you pick as your leader/s when it comes to the Giro, Tour, and the Vuelta? Pellizotti finished 3rd (or 2nd) at the Giro and won the KOM at the Tour, Basso had a solid Giro and Vuelta, Nibali did very well at the Tour, and Kreuziger, who talks a good game, was MIA at the Tour and Vuelta, and probably suggest he is probably a man for the 5-10 day stage races (not that there is anything wrong with it).

I can see some conflict in there, Kreuziger slagged off Basso in an interview in PCM, and he and Nibali are very good friends, whilst Pellizotti wwould want leadership at the Giro and able to have freedom to ride for the KOM competition in the Tour, and I'm sure Basso would like to have another shot at the Tour, and not wait for the Vuelta again.

And yes, the irrelevant 5th option was added on purpose.

 

[Anonymous]

If I were the DS, these would be my realistic goals for 2010 set out clearly in dot point form:

For the Giro:
- Pellizotti for the win, Basso as the decoy/top5.
- Maybe include Nibali as support and training for the Tour.
- The course is suited to Pellizotti's strengths and I believe he can win it.

For the Tour:
- Basso for the win, Nibali as the decoy/top5.
- Kreuziger and Pellizotti as key domestiques. Full commitment to their leaders is required, no KOM, unless a podium is way out of the picture.
- All four MUST be in the Tour team.
- Basso winning is a long shot, but I say, give him one last crack at the tour.
- If Basso fails, Nibali is the man for the future.
- I do not believe Nibali can win in 2010, as such, Basso is leader

For the Vuelta:
- Kreuziger for a top 5.
- This is achievable
- If Nibali skipped the Giro, he shares equal leadership, and could podium.
- He deserves a proper shot at GC and is becoming a great talent.
- Include well-rounded team mates for stage wins also

I'm unsure which GT the poll is for, I assume it is the Tour leader, so I voted Basso.

 

[Polkadot09]

If I were the DS, these would be my realistic goals for 2010 set out clearly in dot point form:

For the Giro:
- Pellizotti for the win, Basso as the decoy/top5.
- Maybe include Nibali as support and training for the Tour.
- The course is suited to Pellizotti's strengths and I believe he can win it.

For the Tour:
- Basso for the win, Nibali as the decoy/top5.
- Kreuziger and Pellizotti as key domestiques. Full commitment to their leaders is required, no KOM, unless a podium is way out of the picture.
- All four MUST be in the Tour team.
- Basso winning is a long shot, but I say, give him one last crack at the tour.
- If Basso fails, Nibali is the man for the future.
- I do not believe Nibali can win in 2010, as such, Basso is leader

For the Vuelta:
- Kreuziger for a top 5.
- This is achievable
- If Nibali skipped the Giro, he shares equal leadership, and could podium.
- He deserves a proper shot at GC and is becoming a great talent.
- Include well-rounded team mates for stage wins also

I'm unsure which GT the poll is for, I assume it is the Tour leader, so I voted Basso.

Thats pretty much the way i see it, Basso will have a crack at the tour, he wont win but could podium/top 5.
Pellizotti for the Giro with Basso in support, a bit like this year.
Kreuziger and Nibali dual leadership for the Veulta, like you said if Nibali skips the Giro.
They are a strong outfit and could cause problems in all 3 GTs.

 

[flicker]

The answer

Pellozotti for Il Giro.

Basso Le Tour

Kruezengir/Niballi para Vuelta

Please note: This may change due to poor or good conditioning of riders or positive doping violations during out of competition drug testing.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Pellizotti for the Giro with Basso as domestique.

Kreuziger and Nibali dual leaders in Tour.

Vuelta: Those that failed.


Basso is not going to do top 5 at the tour anymore. I like Pellizotti, but in the role he had last Tour. I do think he can win the Giro, something Basso is not capable of anymore.

Kreuziger and Nibali are the future and can only become stronger. I think they can come a long way in the Tour.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Once again, it's the news following the forum!
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ivan-basso-to-return-to-the-tour-de-france

 

[iainf72]

Basso is not going to do top 5 at the tour anymore. I like Pellizotti, but in the role he had last Tour. I do think he can win the Giro, something Basso is not capable of anymore.

I disagree. In this years Tour he would've top 5'd. And next year it suits him being heavy on the hills towards the end of the race.

While Roman K and Nib's are good riders Basso's GT record this year was far better than theirs.

This year will have been good for Basso as some of the expectation will be reduced. Remember what an outstanding favourite he was pre-Giro?

 

[Cracked Again]

I agree that franco should get his shot at the giro. He already spoke about this in the media saying that he would back up Basso in the Tour as long as Franco could be the leader in the giro. This seems like a fair deal. Basso can't be any worse then he was this past year and he still got 2 top 5's in the GTs.

 

[ludwig]

I agree that franco should get his shot at the giro. He already spoke about this in the media saying that he would back up Basso in the Tour as long as Franco could be the leader in the giro. This seems like a fair deal. Basso can't be any worse then he was this past year and he still got 2 top 5's in the GTs.

Well, Pellizotti had his chance to be leader a few years back and couldn't capitalize.

But I agree the likely line-up is Pellozotti leads at the Giro and Basso leads at the Tour. Both will need hella form and hella luck to win their respective events.

 

[Mickey75]

I'm not sure all of these guys will still be on the Liquigas team next season.

I think Pellizotti could still end up at Team Sky. Pellizotti and Lokvist will be their guys in the Giro.

 

[Boeing]

Pellizotti had an insane tour. He was out of it the last week but still brought the wood and broke rides legs for the sake of pain and pain alone. Even in Paris

give it to him

 

[blackcat]

Basso is perhaps the only rider who could beat Contador. If Basso was not banned, he would have 4 Tour wins by this stage in all likelihood. His timetrialing and climbing would have been at the level Contador was this year.

 

[python]

four - 4! - four tours in the two years basso was sitting out

are the tours run every 6 months did you mean gts?

 

[maltiv]

four - 4! - four tours in the two years basso was sitting out

are the tours run every 6 months did you mean gts?

2006,2007,2008,2009.

D'uh.

 

[python]

y not 2005 then? du'h five tours, 6 tours du'h?

 

[maltiv]

y not 2005 then? du'h five tours, 6 tours du'h?

Because of Armstrong obviously... Basso was 2. in 2005, wasn't allowed to start in 2006, suspended in 2007 and 2008, and rode giro/vuelta in 2009. He would definitely have won some of those if he wasn't suspended, but doubt he would've been able to beat 2009 Contador.

 

[blackcat]

y not 2005 then? du'h five tours, 6 tours du'h?

Basso had recitified his chrono weakness. His climbing was superior to Armstrong in that final year, 2005, and he just had to make his chrono a weapon to rival his climbing. In my mind, he had achieved that for the next era post-Armstrong. He was a better timetrialer than Wiggins, than Landis, than Vande Velde.

He would have won 2006, 2007, 2008, and this year. All on CSC. Schlecks would have been working for him.

 

[blaxland]

pellizotti leader at the giro.......rode incredibly well last year deserves his chance as leader........nibali as support.
basso leader at the tour.........last chance to prove he is back.....pellizotti as support......and kom title
kreuziger leader at the vuelta.................he has a great future ahead of him.....

 

[python]

Basso had recitified his chrono weakness. His climbing was superior to Armstrong in that final year, 2005, and he just had to make his chrono a weapon to rival his climbing. In my mind, he had achieved that for the next era post-Armstrong. He was a better timetrialer than Wiggins, than Landis, than Vande Velde.

He would have won 2006, 2007, 2008, and this year. All on CSC. Schlecks would have been working for him.

i used to think of basso in your terms. way before his suspensions and the doped heroics. but looking soberly at the guy i came to the conclusion he's a rare talent little argument there but with feeble mind and a simplistic tactical savvy he plentifully showed this year. basso is italian levi with more talent and less brains.

 

[Publicus]

i used to think of basso in your terms. way before his suspensions and the doped heroics. but looking soberly at the guy i came to the conclusion he's a rare talent little argument there but with feeble mind and a simplistic tactical savvy he plentifully showed this year. basso is italian levi with more talent and less brains.

I was going to say the same thing. He's an Italian Levi Leipheimer minus the TT ability. As they say around my way, I don't think Basso can see AC. His time has passed.

 

[steelciocc]

Have a Coke and a smile!

I agree with Mountain Goat's assesment from page 1. Basso should be in a position to contend in il Giro if Pellizotti stumbles and have one last chance to lead the Tour squadra.

I voted "Coke" because the question was overly broad. Sorry.

 

[blackcat]

I was going to say the same thing. He's an Italian Levi Leipheimer minus the TT ability. As they say around my way, I don't think Basso can see AC. His time has passed.

Levi could timetrial when he got his medical program right and the blood parameters dialed in. But Basso was classier.

Do not compare a Dauphine timetrial to a Tour timetrial. And do not compare a Tour timetrial in 2007 without the heads of state, to a Tour timetrial in 2003-2006. Compare Basso to Leepy Leepheimer then.

Leepy's real standard was the 2006 Gerolsteiner Tour timetrial. See the first timetrial he was about 4 minutes off. That is where he is without the medical program. Like Landis is now. Without the medical program.

Basso has class. Leipheimer is mediocre. If you want to still put a case for his tt being genuine talent, I will put the opinion of an ex-USPS Tour rider who said he is the biggest case of donkey into thorougbred, and about stage 17ish in one of those transition stages in the 2006 Tour, he and the EE rider Inaki Isaki (whatever that sprinter is named) were trying to get off the front of the breakaway group that the peloton let go. Leepy was struggling to put 250 watts thru the bb and get away from his breakaway.

Basso is class, Leepy is a$$.

 

[blackcat]

Basso would have improved by 30 seconds per year with his chrono imo.

2005 s20
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 1.11.46 (46.4 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.23
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 1.16
4 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 1.33
5 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 1.54
6 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.02
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 2.06
8 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 2.25
9 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 2.51
10 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.05
11 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 3.09
12 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 3.10
13 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole 3.11
14 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 3.13

2005 s1
1 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 20.51 (54.67 km/h)
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 0.02
3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 0.53
4 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 0.57
5 Laszlo Bodrogi (Hun) Credit Agricole 0.59
6 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.02
7 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo
8 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 1.04
9 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 1.05
10 Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth 1.06
11 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 1.07
12 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.08
13 Jose Enrique Gutierrez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.12
14 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 1.13
15 Michael Rich (Ger) Gerolsteiner
16 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) Discovery Channel 1.16
17 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 1.18
18 Bradley McGee (Aus) Française Des Jeux 1.24
19 Marc Wauters (Bel) Rabobank 1.25
20 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 1.26

2004 s19
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 1.06.49 (49.39 km/h)
2 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.01
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.27
4 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 2.25
5 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 2.48
6 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 2.50
7 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 3.19
8 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 3.33
9 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 3.40
10 Jose Azevedo (Por) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 3.49
11 George Hincapie (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor 3.56
12 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Rabobank 4.06

 

[Galic Ho]

Mountain Goat annalogy sounds good. I disagree with its application come race day but it should be sound enough. Pellizotti for the Giro and bluff like all ******y at the Tour. Kreuziger was the form younger rider leading into the Tour and until Mt. Ventoux, Nibali had his number. I wasn't shocked, but I was surprised. Thought it would be the reverse.

Basso vs Levi. No real comparison. Different team environments until Levi joined Disco. Blackcat look at the times on those ITTs. None of the top riders do those times anymore. Todays times are important. Basso better climber than Lance in 2005? Equal, but not better. He never dropped him, a prerequisite to earn that title. Hypothetically Basso would have podiumed in a Tour or two, I just don't see him ever winning it. He is an Italian Levi or perhaps Levi is an American Basso (note height and hair differences). Both Diesels, both with solid ITT ability and can go with the punches in the hills. I doubt Basso would have won the Tour in 2006 if he'd have raced. I think Vino and Jan would have beaten him. Levi and Basso are very similar these days. Similar in the Giro but the Vuelta though two years apart does provide some insight. Levi, 2nd behind Contador, Basso 5th. Case closed, Basso was banned and he is not the rider he once was. They are very similar.

Blackcat you can state that Basso is classy, but without that medical program in line (you acknowledge Levi did not have it up to scratch) then he would have been, in all likelihood, in the same boat. The @ss boat dropping time all over the place, often unexpectedly and the bewilderment of the commentators.

 

[blackcat]

Basso never attacked Armstrong. It was clear he was stronger.