Who should lead Liquigas in 2010?

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Who should lead liquigas in 2010?

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Galic Ho said:
Did not know Levi, Cadel and Mosquera were given time penalties. I've never heard that before. Odd that I haven't, as it should have popped up earlier. Thanks guys.
Not all in the same GT. The last two were this year.
Levi was the 2007 Tour and only got 10 seconds.

Yes, MG, a strong probabilty, there could is perhaps better than would.
After all, there's also falling off, to consider.
 
Oct 11, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
Rominger, few here think Basso can win the Tour anymore. I like your bluffing idea. I doubt however that Ivan is selfless enough to give it a try, unless he has a solid guarantee that the team will work for him at the Giro or Vuelta. Regardless of this Liquigas will have a strong team at the Tour, but have no riders on contract who I believe can win the grand boucle. Italians should give a serious crack at the Giro with two riders and then take all four to the Tour. Pellizotti on his own at the Giro, have Basso and Pellizotti ride for the youngsters at the Tour and give Basso all the support they can muster for the Vuelta. Samu and Valverde have both recently hinted they may have a crack at the Tour, Samu indicated next year he will. He's better than all the Liquigas guys right now. Why not aim for the races with fewer GC riders?
I like the vuelta idea for Basso, it sounds like the Giro will have a good field next year and the tour is.... well the tour so its going to have all the top guys. He could possibly win a vuelta, Pellizotti for the Giro and the two of them give their support to the youngsters in France. I figure Kreuziger for the tour (best liquigas gc, not the win) when liquigas management in their wisdom use the old chestnut of letting the road decide to help them avoid having to make an actual judgement call.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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Hi guys!
Interesting topic. My opiniom is, that it´s not about the best possible "should be" result for Liquigas, it´s about managing egos, different goals, happy sponsors etc. (so let´s forget about x+y for Giro, support from z ...). From what i red, I thing it looks like:

1. Basso - like it or not, he´s a big star (at least in Italy), he is very popular (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2009/giro09/?id=/photos/2009/giro09/giro092/bettiniphoto_0038122_1_full), he´s got results this year, he´ll be 32 next year, so I thing he really doesn´t want to make domestique for someone, even if it´s good for team - he can help someone if it´s part of his preparation but that´s all. I think he will want to ride Tour for result this year.

2. Pellizotti - 32 next year, got results this year, he said he wants to be leader for Giro next year and he will be i think, if the situation in the team will be complicated, I can see him share the leadership with someone.

3. Nibali - young guy, italian, big talent, but I don´t know why he seems as the one least important for the L. management. May be he´s not pressuring as much as his team mates. I don´t know what he will ride next year, but I think he wil not be in team for 2010/2011 (he can stay only if one of IB, FP, or RK want´s to leave).

4. Kreuziger - 23/24 next year and still he is experienced leader, not for GT yet, but this guy is a winner. I´m sure L. management will want to hold him for future (although he´s not italian) and from this position he´s got some power to pressure on his calendar - so I think he will ride Tour, or will have strong position on Giro (but I think it´s less possible).

5. Vuelta is not that interesting for L. or any of it´s riders.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
Not all in the same GT. The last two were this year.
Levi was the 2007 Tour and only got 10 seconds.
Well I did hear about them then, except for Levi. Later two, Vuelta stage 13. Doesn't change anything, the Spaniards still would have come 1st and 2nd.
 
If thinking in terms of comparing the 2009 grand tour performances of Armstrong and Basso, who, before the rise of Contador were the cream of the grand tour contenders, one would have to surmise that the 2009 Basso is quite a few steps below the pre-suspension Basso. He couldn't reach the podium in the two "lesser" grand tours nor could he even win a stage. His ITT performances were far below his best of the pre-suspension year. Armstrong's podium finish can be strongly attributed to Astana's TTT superiority over his competitors.

Ultimately I'd have to say that Basso hasn't shown that he deserves the full support of the Liquigas team at the Tour. They would be wise to give Basso and Pellizoti co-leadership status at the Giro, while allowing the youngsters Nibali and Kreuziger to continue their indoctrination into becoming true gc contenders at the Tour. They are both class stage racers, both with improving climbing and ITT skills. Liquigas would be wise to invest in the future with these two while allowing Pellizoti to pursue his Giro ambitions. Basso is the odd man out unless he shows exceptional form and a reoccurrence of the pre-suspension Basso.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I voted for basso, because I think he should be leader for the tdf, maybe that was the question though.

I think basso has great talent, and his first season back he finishes 4th in 2 gts, and now he has a full season of racing in him again I think he´ll improve. I suspect Pellizotti is a fellow for the giro and won´t perform so well in the gc in the tour so not him. kreuziger and Nibali look good but they are still behind the other two, I wouldn´t want them to be leader for the giro or tour(when you have Basso and Pellizotti), I dont think they´ll improve enough next year to be on teh same level as basso or franco.

If i were playting cycling manager I would do the same thing again for the giro next season, Pelizotti in charge but Basso riding more for training unless a good opportunity comes up. Then Basso leader at the tour with the two young guys helping and ready to take chances, although if they´re going to cause problems I would onlyt take one of them, I tthink nibali is still stronger. And the vuelta whoevers left who didn´t do so well(maybe all of them :S). But main points Pellizotti leader for the giro and Basso for the tour.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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I didn't like Pellizotti before this seasons Giro and Tour. But the guy brought fitness and attack and just rode his bike man

His ride on the final mountain stage of the Tour, when he had the Polka Dot jersey wrapped up and could have gone recovery ride mode to the finish, was incredible. He attacked and recovered and attacked like he thought he could win the stage. Then he attacked in Paris.

Give it to Il Delfino

If hot sisters count in the mix then maybe Basso.

Besides Basso will ride for Alberto next year.
 
Oct 15, 2009
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Pellizoti should be the leader for the Giro. That seems clear to me, the route is tailor-made for a rider like Franco. He has shown that, if he's fit, he can win in a route like that.

For the Tour is harder, but I think that Nibali and Kreuziger should be co-leaders, and let the road decide who will work for the other. Basso's time is gone, and will never come back. He may crack a podium at the Vuelta, but nothing more.

For the Vuelta, Basso and either Nibali or Kreuziger, depending on the calendar of each one, to support Ivan.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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van nelle said:
Hi guys!
Interesting topic. My opiniom is, that it´s not about the best possible "should be" result for Liquigas, it´s about managing egos, different goals, happy sponsors etc. (so let´s forget about x+y for Giro, support from z ...). From what i red, I thing it looks like:

1. Basso - like it or not, he´s a big star (at least in Italy), he is very popular (http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2009/giro09/?id=/photos/2009/giro09/giro092/bettiniphoto_0038122_1_full), he´s got results this year, he´ll be 32 next year, so I thing he really doesn´t want to make domestique for someone, even if it´s good for team - he can help someone if it´s part of his preparation but that´s all. I think he will want to ride Tour for result this year.

2. Pellizotti - 32 next year, got results this year, he said he wants to be leader for Giro next year and he will be i think, if the situation in the team will be complicated, I can see him share the leadership with someone.

3. Nibali - young guy, italian, big talent, but I don´t know why he seems as the one least important for the L. management. May be he´s not pressuring as much as his team mates. I don´t know what he will ride next year, but I think he wil not be in team for 2010/2011 (he can stay only if one of IB, FP, or RK want´s to leave).

4. Kreuziger - 23/24 next year and still he is experienced leader, not for GT yet, but this guy is a winner. I´m sure L. management will want to hold him for future (although he´s not italian) and from this position he´s got some power to pressure on his calendar - so I think he will ride Tour, or will have strong position on Giro (but I think it´s less possible).

5. Vuelta is not that interesting for L. or any of it´s riders.
Basso took plenty of interest this year, so with basso ridiing the tour one of the others may target the vuelta due to having 4 gc hopefuls.
 
Mar 31, 2009
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I dont think that Bassos time is up. When he came back this year his last GT had been 3 years ago. In 2010 I think he will be stronger than in 2009 (everybody writes the same about LA who is 6 years older...). I agree he isnt the punchy rider Contador is, but look at the Giro 06! He rode such a high pace that nobody could follow. If he can reach that level again (he was close to Jan Ullrich in the TT too.) he will be a contender for every GT.
Giro: Pellizotti Captain
Basso/Nibali key domestiques
Tour: Basso
Pellizotti KOM
Kreuziger tries to be best young rider
Vuelta: Nibali/Kreuziger (TdF 2009)
 
Aug 12, 2009
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ulle91 said:
I dont think that Bassos time is up. When he came back this year his last GT had been 3 years ago. In 2010 I think he will be stronger than in 2009 (everybody writes the same about LA who is 6 years older...). I agree he isnt the punchy rider Contador is, but look at the Giro 06! He rode such a high pace that nobody could follow. If he can reach that level again (he was close to Jan Ullrich in the TT too.) he will be a contender for every GT.
Giro: Pellizotti Captain
Basso/Nibali key domestiques
Tour: Basso
Pellizotti KOM
Kreuziger tries to be best young rider
Vuelta: Nibali/Kreuziger (TdF 2009)
Bold. Clinic has the answer for that. Basso didn't accelerate, he just increased his tempo and rode everyone off his wheel. We all know how he did it we're just missing the specifics. He no longer has that advantage.

Liquigas will go with Pellizotti for sure at the Giro and if they want to keep Nibali they'll go with him for the Tour. Basso and Nibali are rumoured to be leaving the team after the next season, so what benefit is there in giving them no.1 position at any GT, other than the Vuelta, unless they are physically a notch better than Kreuziger and Nibali? I don't think it is probable and both Basso and Nibali have that psychological barrier to overcome.
 
Nov 23, 2009
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I am blown away by the fact that the management of Liquigas have been able to keep four GT stars plus even put out an offer for Contador and not have a mass exodus or issues within the team. They are all to be happy to work together in the GTs, share leadership, and there's little talk of them moving teams.

How are Liquigas so good at people management whereas other teams have not? Or rather, is this normal for ProTour teams and its just that LA v AC v JB has tainted my perception on reality?
 
bicing said:
I am blown away by the fact that the management of Liquigas have been able to keep four GT stars plus even put out an offer for Contador and not have a mass exodus or issues within the team. They are all to be happy to work together in the GTs, share leadership, and there's little talk of them moving teams.

How are Liquigas so good at people management whereas other teams have not? Or rather, is this normal for ProTour teams and its just that LA v AC v JB has tainted my perception on reality?
According to Nibali there are way too many stars in one team, and he wanted to move to Sky, but he wasn't allowed to. They are not really happy to work together in the GTs either, they just don't whine about it on twitter...
 
May 6, 2009
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Pellizotti and Basso for the Giro, whilst Nibai leads the team for the Tour of California. Then those 3 plus Kreuziger for the Tour.
 
There's a recent interview with Nibali and Pellizoti where it's stated that Pellizoti is happy to share the Giro leadership with Basso considering his experience and success in the past. Also that having the 2 of them as leaders will relieve them both of the stress of being sole leader.

Nibali plans on trying for a stage win at ToC and contesting for the overall although he states that it'll be tough versus the Americans (Leipheimer, Armstrong and Zabriskie). The articles imply that all is well as far as the chemistry among the 4 principles although we haven't heard from Kreuziger, and he was the one with the strongest objections to Basso, at least pertaining to his potential presence at the 2009 Tour. In his defense he rode selflessly for Basso at the Vuelta.

I believe both interviews can be found here on cyclingnews in their "NEWS" link.

It appears that they are taking things slow in the nurturing of their young talent (Nibali and Kreuziger) which I see as real positive. Kreuziger has the better overall results in the week long stage races but Nibali had a better Tour although Kreuziger seemed to improve form wise steadily towards the end of Tour. Nibali's Tour performance was really impressive in that he was consistently in the mix in the major mountain stages. Bright futures for them both.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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So if its basso pelizotti for the giro, then all four to ride the tour and the road decides, what's the plan for the vuelta? I'd love to see full support behind kreuziger. I think it will be the Evans of the tema to put his hand up for leadership there. The guy who has a below par Tour tryng to save a season. Speaking of Evans any of these guys to BMC for 2011? God knows they could do witha strong climber.
 
Jul 28, 2009
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The main issue at Liquigas is whether they continue after 2010. If it's more probable that they will continue, then they got it all wrong. I don't see, for example, Nibali continuing with them, or even Kreuziger. With Team Sky, Garmin, etc there will be many teams with enough dough to sign them.
Basso, even in his top form he couldn't attack. It was like Ullrich or Evans (although the Aussie tried it more than ever in his career and it paid him dividends) Even if he improves his time-trialling, Contador is already better and Andy Schleck can only improve, too. Can he drop them in the mountains? I doubt it.
If the team is going to fold after 2010, it's OK to have Basso as leader wherever they want. It's the same to earn a top5 spot with the one rider or the other.
 

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