Whose performance will plunge?

[flicker]

No it wasn't. That's nonsense. Who cares about a low profile rider. Bearly made the news.

So I guess what you are saying is that Li was a token China rider. A token asian?

 

[BroDeal]

Just to clarify. Are you saying you think they're looking for the passport numbers to drop as an indication the message of "These are the parametres - play within them" being received?

I don't know what they are doing, but I suspect that they will want to stretch the process out and prosecute the fewest number of cases. Not only does this limit the damage to the sport, but it also exposes the UCI to the smallest amount of risk of legal damages by riders who win their cases.

For example, let's say they have identified fifty riders with suspect parameters. They could refer a handful of the most blatant examples to the national feds for sanctioning, wait a while, and then do a reassessment of the riders again, this time only looking for out of line values that occurred since the last cases were announced. Repeat this process again and again.

McQuaid's recent comments about how the riders will eventually learn lends credence to this strategu pf slowly tightening the noose.

 

[Escarabajo]

So I guess what you are saying is that Li was a token China rider. A token asian?

I am not saying it, you are saying it.

 

[ChrisE]

The $500K was for the backdated TUE in 1999. The donation was revealed at the end of Armstrong's career when Sylvia Shenk ran for the presidency of the UCI. Armstrong's PR people then crafted a statement to make it appear like the suspicious under the table donation was recent and was used to combat doping. In a deposition for SCA arbitration Armstrong claimed to not remember how much he had given to the UCI nor how many times he had given money to the UCI.

You've got the deposition. Why don't you post it here so we don't have to depend on your interpretation of all of this? Also, post a link or something where the $500k was a gift for the TUE. This is the first I have heard of this, though there are so many conspiracy theories flying around maybe I lose track.

Moving on, this whole UCI coverup thing has me curious. At what point does the coverup start? Does the tester toss LA's pis in the ditch on the way to the lab? Does the tester knowingly let LA substiture somebody elses pis?

Does the UCI squash the results from the lab? Does the pis get taken away in a black helicopter? How, in all of these possibilities, does all of this happen without anybody that is in this chain of custody doesn't speak up? Are they all on the dole, so much that the press that would love to get him can't even get a hint of this massive UCI/LA pis/blood coverup?

Frankly, I find it amazing that for 7 years, and then the last 2, this coverup of vast proportions is taking place in return for contributions, without any proof that I am aware of other than the assurances on this and other forums. I look forward to any light you guys can shed on this. Thanks.

 

[usedtobefast]

So I guess what you are saying is that Li was a token China rider. A token asian?

was he token blunts too?
but as a marketing thing,bringing in more guys from wherever, brings in the fans from there too. hence more income potential.

 

[ChrisE]

You've got the deposition. Why don't you post it here so we don't have to depend on your interpretation of all of this? Also, post a link or something where the $500k was a gift for the TUE. This is the first I have heard of this, though there are so many conspiracy theories flying around maybe I lose track.

Moving on, this whole UCI coverup thing has me curious. At what point does the coverup start? Does the tester toss LA's pis in the ditch on the way to the lab? Does the tester knowingly let LA substiture somebody elses pis?

Does the UCI squash the results from the lab? Does the pis get taken away in a black helicopter? How, in all of these possibilities, does all of this happen without anybody that is in this chain of custody doesn't speak up? Are they all on the dole, so much that the press that would love to get him can't even get a hint of this massive UCI/LA pis/blood coverup?

Frankly, I find it amazing that for 7 years, and then the last 2, this coverup of vast proportions is taking place in return for contributions, without any proof that I am aware of other than the assurances on this and other forums. I look forward to any light you guys can shed on this. Thanks.

Not surprising, all we hear are crickets in this thread. Everybody is so quick to talk about this wide ranging high dollar conspiracy of disappearing pis and trashed testing results, and I am not necessarily disputing it. I just want to know how it is done.

And, if we are gonna quote the deposition post it so we can all read it Brodeal.

 

[Escarabajo]

Not surprising, all we hear are crickets in this thread. Everybody is so quick to talk about this wide ranging high dollar conspiracy of disappearing pis and trashed testing results, and I am not necessarily disputing it. I just want to know how it is done.

And, if we are gonna quote the deposition post it so we can all read it Brodeal.

I don't think we are taking you seriously. Besides what kind of information or proof do you want for a payment that was made under the table? Let's get real, you will only find a lot of speculation and a lot of coincidences.

 

[dopingectomy]

I don't know what they are doing, but I suspect that they will want to stretch the process out and prosecute the fewest number of cases. Not only does this limit the damage to the sport, but it also exposes the UCI to the smallest amount of risk of legal damages by riders who win their cases.

maybe I'm wrong, but since the UCI does not have the riders' passports, I cannot see how they can follow this strategy.

 

[badboygolf16v]

For example, let's say they have identified fifty riders with suspect parameters. They could refer a handful of the most blatant examples to the national feds for sanctioning

The rest will get sinusitis.

 

[Race Radio]

You've got the deposition. Why don't you post it here so we don't have to depend on your interpretation of all of this? Also, post a link or something where the $500k was a gift for the TUE. This is the first I have heard of this, though there are so many conspiracy theories flying around maybe I lose track.

Moving on, this whole UCI coverup thing has me curious. At what point does the coverup start? Does the tester toss LA's pis in the ditch on the way to the lab? Does the tester knowingly let LA substiture somebody elses pis?

Does the UCI squash the results from the lab? Does the pis get taken away in a black helicopter? How, in all of these possibilities, does all of this happen without anybody that is in this chain of custody doesn't speak up? Are they all on the dole, so much that the press that would love to get him can't even get a hint of this massive UCI/LA pis/blood coverup?

Frankly, I find it amazing that for 7 years, and then the last 2, this coverup of vast proportions is taking place in return for contributions, without any proof that I am aware of other than the assurances on this and other forums. I look forward to any light you guys can shed on this. Thanks.

Really, you haven't heard of the $500,000 donation? I find that hard to belive

Sylvia Schenk, former president of the German Cycling Federation, questioned in an interview whether Armstrong's direct financial contributions to the UCI's anti-doping effort made it impossible for the organization to be impartial in an investigation of him.

"Since 1998 the UCI has done a lot to combat doping but everything is different where Armstrong is concerned," she said. "There is obviously a strong relationship with Armstrong. The UCI took a lot of money from Armstrong - to my knowledge $500,000."

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-3-12-12933-1-P,00.html

This is from a UCI board member and head of it's ethics committee. To pretend this was just something invented by the "Haters" is silly.

 

[Polish]

Really, you haven't heard of the $500,000 donation? I find that hard to belive

Sylvia Schenk, former president of the German Cycling Federation, questioned in an interview whether Armstrong's direct financial contributions to the UCI's anti-doping effort made it impossible for the organization to be impartial in an investigation of him.



http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-3-12-12933-1-P,00.html

This is from a UCI board member and head of it's ethics committee. To pretend this was just something invented by the "Haters" is silly.

Race, you have always called it a BRIBE in the past...

"Lance BRIBED the UCI $500,000"

Why are you now calling it a Donation? Are you getting soft?

 

[ludwig]

Frankly, I find it amazing that for 7 years, and then the last 2, this coverup of vast proportions is taking place in return for contributions, without any proof that I am aware of other than the assurances on this and other forums. I look forward to any light you guys can shed on this. Thanks.

This didn't just come up not only in the Schenk interview. Verbrueggen and co. actually sued Pound for discussing the issue in public. And as noted above, it was an issue at the SCA civil trial. The notion that Armstrong gave them that money for anti-doping is plainly flat-out ridiculous...it's one of the biggest smoking guns out there.

I hadn't heard the 500K figure before, but it's not surprising. It definitely helps illuminate a plausible explanation for the UCI's obvious favoritism to Armstrong/Bruyneel and their teams.

 

[ChrisE]

I don't think we are taking you seriously. Besides what kind of information or proof do you want for a payment that was made under the table? Let's get real, you will only find a lot of speculation and a lot of coincidences.

Can you read English, or is posting irrelevant answers to questions just a hobby?

Yeah, I heard of the payment but whether it was made or not was not my question. I question the reason.

Let's summarize my earlier post so you won't hurt yourself trying to figure it out:

1) If we are gonna say what is in the deposition, post it to prove you know WTF you are talking about or what was said.

2) Explain how the $500k was a gift for a 99 TUE with something other than what you think (that is not proof), and proof of when it was or wasn't made. Like I said, I have never heard it was made specifically as a gift for the 99 TUE.

3) Explain how the UCI covers up 9 years of LA doping when chain of pis custody issues, a snooping press, tax records, bank transactions, etc. are all under a microscope. It would seem that somebody would have blown the lid off this by now.

 

[Frosty]

Certainly be interesting to see whose performance drops off and i can imagine anyone underperforming in the next few months will see the finger pointed at them. Pellizotti's training partner has an excuse though...

 

[Escarabajo]

...
.

By insulting people you won't get anywhere.

I stand with what I said. Look at your questions again one more time:

2) Explain how the $500k was a gift for a 99 TUE with something other than what you think (that is not proof), and proof of when it was or wasn't made. Like I said, I have never heard it was made specifically as a gift for the 99 TUE.

What are you talking about? Where are we going to get this info from? That was an illegal payment that was made under the table and most likely covered up by the UCI. We came to know that by accident.

It has been explained in this Forum adnauseum.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2005...t-blasts-ucis-handling-of-armstrong-case_8889

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2005/sep/16/cycling.cycling

Again is all speculation about the connection with TUE.

What is not speculation is the Conflict of Interest for the donation made. But let's not deviate the topic anymore.

3) Explain how the UCI covers up 9 years of LA doping when chain of pis custody issues, a snooping press, tax records, bank transactions, etc. are all under a microscope. It would seem that somebody would have blown the lid off this by now

Might happen in the future. Just wait.

I am going to be honest with you, English is not my first language, but it does not look by the way you write it that you are mastering it either.

 

[Race Radio]

Let me get this straight. Lance is one of the smartest, shrewdness guys in the game. Builds a big team, tries to buy the ASO, Owns stakes in Trek, SCRAM, hotels, investment properties with Verbruggen........the Groupies say he is a genius

Does anyone really think that Lance would "Donate" $500,000 and not expect anything in return?

Walter Viru gave USPS/Disco advanced notice of OOCs, The Virjman report. The AFLD followed the UCI testers at the 2009 Tour. They wrote an 11 page report on how Astana was consistently given preferential treatment, Something Sylvia Schnek confirmed years ago. The question is not if Armstrong got preferential treatment for his "Donation', it is obvious he did. The question is what level of treatment did he get that we do not know about?

 

[ChrisE]

Thanks for the links to help prove you don't know WTF you are whining about. You said my question was not "taken seriously" or some such BS. That's because my questions drop a Baby Ruth in the hate LA circle jerk pool party.

The first link you post:

"Schenk also pointed to the fact that Armstrong, shortly after a damaging book – David Walsh’s “LA Confidential” – was published claiming he had regularly used doping products, handed Verbruggen a hefty check to be used in the fight against doping"

“There is obviously a strong relationship with Armstrong,” Schenk added. “The UCI took a lot of money from Armstrong – to my knowledge 500,000 dollars – and now there is speculation that there are financial connections to Armstrong, as well as the American market. I do not know what sort of connections Verbruggen has.”

Let me summarize the question again, in bold so you can follow.

Where does anything say the $500k was a gift for the 99 TUE, which Brodeal claims?

Earth to scareabanjo: We are talking about the "retroactive" TUE for cortizone in the 99 tour. That is what Brodeal claimed the money was for. No shyt it is all just speculation, and to say LA told the UCI in 99 "Hey, I'll give you a donation x years in the future if you backdate this TUE" is ludicrous.

The second link you provide is just a bunch of irrelevant BS on this particular subject; it contains nothing answering what I asked. It is about the 99 EPO samples. It has nothing to do with how this great coverup over 9 years of cycling and 11 years total works.

I have asked nothing about the conflict of interest, because I believe there is. I am not defending him making "donations". Hello? I just ask three simple questions in my previous post.
Now, if we are gonna continue to play this game I need to go to the store and buy more beer so we are on equal footing here.

Edit: to bold some stuff for RR.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Let me get this straight. Lance is one of the smartest, shrewdness guys in the game. Builds a big team, tries to buy the ASO, Owns stakes in Trek, SCRAM, hotels, investment properties with Verbruggen........the Groupies say he is a genius

Does anyone really think that Lance would "Donate" $500,000 and not expect anything in return?

Walter Viru gave USPS/Disco advanced notice of OOCs, The Virjman report. The AFLD followed the UCI testers at the 2009 Tour. They wrote an 11 page report on how Astana was consistently given preferential treatment, Something Sylvia Schnek confirmed years ago. The question is not if Armstrong got preferential treatment for his "Donation', it is obvious he did. The question is what level of treatment did he get that we do not know about?

And is anyone other than Chris stupid enough to think that he would leave any kind of a clear paper trail for his bribes that we could spoon feed to an inquiring dolt.

 

[Race Radio]

Thanks for the links to help prove you don't know WTF you are whining about. You said my question was not "taken seriously" or some such BS. That's because my questions drop a Baby Ruth in the hate LA circle jerk pool party.

The first link you post:

"Schenk also pointed to the fact that Armstrong, shortly after a damaging book – David Walsh’s “LA Confidential” – was published claiming he had regularly used doping products, handed Verbruggen a hefty check to be used in the fight against doping"

“There is obviously a strong relationship with Armstrong,” Schenk added. “The UCI took a lot of money from Armstrong – to my knowledge 500,000 dollars – and now there is speculation that there are financial connections to Armstrong, as well as the American market. I do not know what sort of connections Verbruggen has.”

Let me summarize the question again, in bold so you can follow.

Where does anything say the $500k was a gift for the 99 TUE, which Brodeal claims?

Earth to scareabanjo: We are talking about the "retroactive" TUE for cortizone in the 99 tour. That is what Brodeal claimed the money was for. No shyt it is all just speculation, and to say LA told the UCI in 99 "Hey, I'll give you a donation x years in the future if you backdate this TUE" is ludicrous.

The second link you provide is just a bunch of irrelevant BS on this particular subject; it contains nothing answering what I asked. It is about the 99 EPO samples. It has nothing to do with how this great coverup over 9 years of cycling and 11 years total works.

I have asked nothing about the conflict of interest, because I believe there is. I am not defending him making "donations". Hello? I just ask three simple questions in my previous post.
Now, if we are gonna continue to play this game I need to go to the store and buy more beer so we are on equal footing here.

Edit: to bold some stuff for RR.

The payment of the "Donation" started in October 1999. The story of the "Donation" being for a testing machine was not invented until years later.

Why else would Armstrong pay the UCI in in 1999? Why would the UCI give him preferential treatment?

You should not expect there to be a receipt or something but common sense says Armstrong received something for his $$$

 

[Race Radio]

And is anyone other than Chris stupid enough to think that he would leave any kind of a clear paper trail for his bribes that we could spoon feed to an inquiring dolt.

There has to be a receipt, how else is Lance going to file an expense report? really the logic is obvious, on this we can certainly agree.

 

[Frosty]

I am intrigued though about whose performance will drop. Puts a bit of uncertainty into the forthcoming giro, tour. Or at least i hope so.

 

[ChrisE]

The payment of the "Donation" started in October 1999. The story of the "Donation" being for a testing machine was not invented until years later.

Why else would Armstrong pay the UCI in in 1999? Why would the UCI give him preferential treatment?

You should not expect there to be a receipt or something but common sense says Armstrong received something for his $$$

Link, please. Again, I have never heard this before.

 

[ChrisE]

And is anyone other than Chris stupid enough to think that he would leave any kind of a clear paper trail for his bribes that we could spoon feed to an inquiring dolt.

Whatever.

This great coverup has all the bases covered since 1999. I see you would rather insult than explain how all of this happens. I thought we were beyond that.

You looking for some oceanfront property in Montana?

 

[Oncearunner8]

By insulting people you won't get anywhere.



I am going to be honest with you, English is not my first language, but it does not look by the way you write it that you are mastering it either.

I do knots NO what u are talking bowts.

 

[Oncearunner8]

There has to be a receipt, how else is Lance going to file an expense report? really the logic is obvious, on this we can certainly agree.

Yeah but you should know if there was a depo. it should be noted the amount correct? Even if it was in the form of a question...did you donate X to the UCI???? etc. The fact no one seems to be able to dig that number up makes me and drunk ambien Chris....think that the number is wrong and the time frame may be wrong also. That **** has nothing to do with how he is able to evade the bad boys in black.