Why are mavic aksiums so slow?

[biker77]

I recently switched a pair of mavic aksiums with a pair of mavic cosmos wheels(old 19mm rim 20f 24r). Same bike, same set up and tyres.

Aksiums based on kysriums but heavier. Cosmos built on something that resembles an open pro rims. Hubs on both are cartridge, but aksiums have mavics new style chunky hub while cosmos have smaller profile.

The aksiums are significantly slower going downhill. Anecdotally, the cosmos seem to keep up with zipp, mad fibre, other carbon rims when coasting down steep grades.

I have the opinion it is not equipment but rider. However, this is one situation where I notice a significant performance decrease. Any ideas why?

 

[ElChingon]

Drag, friction, lack of power.

 

[purpletezza]

I used Aksiums once. They feel slow and heavy. I think the rims are pretty solid and heavy. Bombproof though.

 

[42x16ss]

I use Aksiums for training and club crits simply because if someone puts their Rear Der. in my spokes or I have an incident on the road and they are damaged I will be out of pocket maybe $250 tops for a new set, I don't even bother repairing them . They aren't a race wheel, just a cheap solid wheel that gets you plenty of no-frills fun.

The other good thing about them is when you put on your race wheels after using Aksiums all the time it's like somebody strapped a rocket to your bike.

 

[JayKosta]

Aero drag due to different spoke count & spoke shape?
Also maybe aero difference of rim shape & size.

I doubt the hub shape difference would be noticeable.

Or maybe the actual wind speed & direction was different for your test runs....

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

It's those terrible Mavic hubs. Awful design from Askium to Cosmic Carbone, the whole line up stinks. This 'slowness' is a common complaint amongst Mavic users, even with the lighter wheels, and it's usually the freehub seal, bearing drag, or both. Mavic hubs take the cake as the most poorly designed hubs on the market, and this isn't a new phenomenon, been going on for eons.

You could have had a much nicer set custom built in the same price range. Just sayin'

 

[Parrulo]

lol i just ordered a bike with Mavic Aksium WTS

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I wouldn't worry too much about it in the first season Parrulo, after that it's a roll of the dice on how long they will serve you. The unfortunate thing about the bike industry is that they figured that selling mid to even high end bikes with really terrible wheels nets them more profit. In the end the general consumer is a victim of greed, just like in any other industry.

Wasn't like this not long ago either. Choose frame, grouppo, and wheels were usually custom built specifically for that customer. Now it's like McDonalds

 

[Caruut]

I wouldn't worry too much about it in the first season Parrulo, after that it's a roll of the dice on how long they will serve you. The unfortunate thing about the bike industry is that they figured that selling mid to even high end bikes with really terrible wheels nets them more profit. In the end the general consumer is a victim of greed, just like in any other industry.

Wasn't like this not long ago either. Choose frame, grouppo, and wheels were usually custom built specifically for that customer. Now it's like McDonalds

In the UK, you see so many high-end frame with flashy bars and saddles, pre-packed with 105s and rubbishy wheels. Just don't understand it at all.

 

[Notso Swift]

at least 105 can do the job...

 

[JayKosta]

In the UK, you see so many high-end frame with flashy bars and saddles, pre-packed with 105s and rubbishy wheels. Just don't understand it at all.

===========================
It is because there are so many choices of high-end wheels available.
Every buyer (who would be willing to pay for high-end wheels on a new bike) would want something different.
The seller would have the nightmare of stocking and then servicing all the various combinations.

It is easier for them to equip the bike with 'reasonable wheels' that are fine for non-racing, and let the buyer do wheel upgrades independently.
I guess the makers & sellers think that it doesn't hurt their sales, so why do a lot of extra work.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

===========================
It is because there are so many choices of high-end wheels available.
Every buyer (who would be willing to pay for high-end wheels on a new bike) would want something different.
The seller would have the nightmare of stocking and then servicing all the various combinations.

It is easier for them to equip the bike with 'reasonable wheels' that are fine for non-racing, and let the buyer do wheel upgrades independently.
I guess the makers & sellers think that it doesn't hurt their sales, so why do a lot of extra work.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

This is the problem now. Those "reasonable wheels" aren't meant for everyday abuse even, they're just on the bike to get it out of the shop. In the last decade of building wheels the majority of sales out of my shop have gone to people who are utterly dissatisfied with the wheels that came on their bike. This customer demographic has grown exponentially in the last decade. I think it's really irresponsible for the bike mfg's to be propagating junk wheels that end up in the garbage when it's the most important component of the bike. But, in the end it's all about money and profits.

 

[Boeing]

anything that can be used as a boat anchor is typically slow.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

This is the problem now. Those "reasonable wheels" aren't meant for everyday abuse even, they're just on the bike to get it out of the shop. In the last decade of building wheels the majority of sales out of my shop have gone to people who are utterly dissatisfied with the wheels that came on their bike. This customer demographic has grown exponentially in the last decade. I think it's really irresponsible for the bike mfg's to be propagating junk wheels that end up in the garbage when it's the most important component of the bike. But, in the end it's all about money and profits.

Agree, don't sell wheelsouttaboxes, never have. All the wheels I sell are handbuilt by me and my employee...'bout 400 per year.

Most spec'ed wheels, flashy, big decals, all suffer from 'crappyhubitis', poor builds.

 

[biker77]

So I rode my old kysrium elites yesterday in 20-30mph wind. Feel much better going uphill as they are much stiffer and lighter, but I get blown around all over in a headwind. Solo ride so cant compare coasting but am going to guess they are still slow.

For custom, how do I make sure the wheels are stiff enough for climbing?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

For custom, how do I make sure the wheels are stiff enough for climbing?

That's up to your wheel builder to do it right in the first place. But this happens even before the build, they should work with you on part selection, spoke count and pattern based on body weight, what purpose that particular wheel set serves, riding style, and road conditions of your stomping grounds.

 

[biker77]

165lbs, do-it-all but closer to racing than bulletproof, northeast usa so roads are pretty good (imho). Any general recommendation would be appreciated - my main aim is that the wheel is stiff when climbing and light enough to be competitive.

Carbon is out of budget otherwise I would get enves with dt240s. Thanks for any help.

 

[Notso Swift]

How much are you looking at?
Clincher or tubular

With your weight you could get away with something built around Stans 340's 24/28/32 spokes with DT240, DT Comps and that would be about $800 and 1400grams, plus being tubeless you save 70 -100 or so per tube The rims are 200lbs limited.

You could save a bit of weight on the hubs or if you upgrade them to Dash, still less than $1k and less than 1200 in 24's

Or to save cash you could use something like WHite hubs for not much penalty to the DT240's

 

[biker77]

Have heard bad things about Stans - especially as stiffness is a requirement. Never heard of Dash - what makes them an upgrade from DT240?

What are peoples thoughts on these:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WBPX20PC/planet_x_20mm_carbon_wheelset_handbuilt_by_paul_curran

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Have heard bad things about Stans - especially as stiffness is a requirement. Never heard of Dash - what makes them an upgrade from DT240?

What are peoples thoughts on these:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WBPX20PC/planet_x_20mm_carbon_wheelset_handbuilt_by_paul_curran

That's right, no Stan's rims, or tubeless, junk X2. I don't know why you keep looking at McDonald's fast food wheels? Going from Mavic to Planet X is like trying to make a decision whether to eat at Jack in the Box or Carl's Jr. You can have a much better set for the money, especially the hubs. If I were to build a tubular climbers wheel on a budget for $400 or less it would go like this;

Velocity Escape rims
Miche Racing Box hubs
28h 2x front and rear
Sapim Lasers front and nds, Race ds

You really want to climb faster? Train harder, eat right, and get plenty of rest. I regularly ride with a 50 something year old that rolls 32h wheels on a steel frame and can out climb all of the younger racers on much lighter equipment. It's not the arrow, it's the Indian. Get my meaning?

 

[rph1960]

Have heard bad things about Stans - especially as stiffness is a requirement. Never heard of Dash - what makes them an upgrade from DT240?

What are peoples thoughts on these:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WBPX20PC/planet_x_20mm_carbon_wheelset_handbuilt_by_paul_curran

This is easy. Have Giuseppe Magnetico (aka RDV4ROUBAIX) build your set. Getting ready to have him build my 3rd(tubulars). Service is impeccable and quality matches!

 

[42x16ss]

That's right, no Stan's rims, or tubeless, junk X2. I don't know why you keep looking at McDonald's fast food wheels? Going from Mavic to Planet X is like trying to make a decision whether to eat at Jack in the Box or Carl's Jr. You can have a much better set for the money, especially the hubs. If I were to build a tubular climbers wheel on a budget for $400 or less it would go like this;

Velocity Escape rims
Miche Racing Box hubs
28h 2x front and rear
Sapim Lasers front and nds, Race ds

You really want to climb faster? Train harder, eat right, and get plenty of rest. I regularly ride with a 50 something year old that rolls 32h wheels on a steel frame and can out climb all of the younger racers on much lighter equipment. It's not the arrow, it's the Indian. Get my meaning?

+1 on the Velocity Escape's.

I've raced on Escape's laced to DT 240's for over 2 seasons now, 20 Front/28 Rear. Haven't missed a beat.

Edit: I do weigh 70kg's wringing wet though

 

[Notso Swift]

Yes Stans are relative noodles but you are a 175lbs climber and you want something light.
That Stans/Dash combo will give you 1700 gram all up, mounted to the bike (and you can save 50g buy swapping out the skewers) so a minimum of 100 grams less than those Carbon X if you are using laxtex tubes or 200 if you use butyl, and don't expect the Planet X is any stiffer

Would I run them, no, I have a freind who does without issue and he is built like you with the same needs. However, I am a 200 lbs sprinter and my wheels are tubulars which are strong and really stiff for 1400W of power... but they weigh in around 2000+g on the bike, it is the price you pay

 

[biker77]

That's right, no Stan's rims, or tubeless, junk X2. I don't know why you keep looking at McDonald's fast food wheels? Going from Mavic to Planet X is like trying to make a decision whether to eat at Jack in the Box or Carl's Jr. You can have a much better set for the money, especially the hubs. If I were to build a tubular climbers wheel on a budget for $400 or less it would go like this;

Velocity Escape rims
Miche Racing Box hubs
28h 2x front and rear
Sapim Lasers front and nds, Race ds

You really want to climb faster? Train harder, eat right, and get plenty of rest. I regularly ride with a 50 something year old that rolls 32h wheels on a steel frame and can out climb all of the younger racers on much lighter equipment. It's not the arrow, it's the Indian. Get my meaning?

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like a good setup that I am going to investigate further.

When climbing the arrows don`t make as much difference, but if they are not stiff enough they rub the brake pads. Going downhill and my old arrows where a liability.

 

[Barracuda]

I will ad to the questions by asking another somewhat related one.

I have Mavic Aksium Race rims with Conti GP 4000s on an old Aluminium Trek.

I now have a Fuji SST 2.0 with OVAL 330 rims with DT Swiss hubs.

The oval rims "feel" sluggish compared with the aksiums ...

Tell me its all in my head and just need to employ Rule # 5

Or are the Oval rims junk also