Why are so many more German cyclists from the East rather than West?

[TMP401]

After watching the successful German World Cup squad this summer, and the Tour de France with several prominent and successful German riders, it occured to me that there's a complete split in East Germans and West Germans in both football and cycling.

In football, we can look at the 2010 and 2014 World Cup squads. Of the 30 German-born players who played in the 2010 and/or 2014 World Cups, only ONE, Toni Kroos, was born in either East Germany or what used to be East Germany.

In cycling, the situation is the complete opposite. Taking the Tour de France editions from 2012-2014 as a reasonable marker of the elite talent Germany has to offer in the last few years, we find the following German cyclists from East Germany:
Marcus Burghardt
John Degenkolb
Simon Geschke
Bert Grabsch
André Greipel
Patrick Gretsch
Danilo Hondo
Marcel Kittel
Andreas Klöden
Roger Kluge
Tony Martin
Jens Voigt
Paul Voss

And from the West:
Johannes Fröhlinger
Christian Knees
Dominik Nerz
Andreas Schillinger
Marcel Sieberg

Looking at the three German Grand Tour winners, Jan Ullrich, Rudi Altig and Rolf Wolfshohl, the latter two (winners of the Vuelta in 1962 and 1965 respectively) are actually from West Germany, while Ullrich was from the East. Perhaps this means East German cyclists were less common in big tournaments when the Wall was still up?

I've heard it said about Jens Voigt that his great fighting spirit and high pain threshold were somehow a legacy of an austere and tough East German upbringing. But this surely can't also have been the case for Degenkolb (1 year old when the Berlin Wall fell), Kittel (2 years old) or Martin (5 years old) - or at least not to the same degree the East German psyche could be imparted to someone as old as Voigt. It surely can't be the case that East Germans are genetically different from West Germans - they were only separated for 40 years.

So what are the reasons for it?

 

[Jancouver]

Very simple

East = Poor or lets say poorer therefore more desire to make better living
West = Rich(er) therefore less need to work super hard as good living standard is already provided

or at least something along those lines ....

 

[Lupi33]

yep
same reason there are so many good russian female tennis players

 

[The Hegelian]

I'll take a stab: structural reasons.

i.e. The East used to put a lot of resources into track cycling (and other Olympic sports), thus creating an elite level cycling culture. Transitions from track to road are pretty common.

 

[Christian]

i.e. The East used to put a lot of resources into track cycling (and other Olympic sports), thus creating an elite level cycling culture. Transitions from track to road are pretty common.

This would also be my guess. Also I think the GDR heavily favoured endurance sports in general

Obviously when you go down to Continental level there are a ton of west-german riders. But almost all of the best ones come from the east. Two more westerners that I can think of are the dynamic duo Linus Gerdemann and Fabian Wegmann

 

[Gogojv]

Different reasons.
Tradition. - more people join cycling and more knowledge by trainers.
Infrastructure: big city v.s. Rural area.
In dutch cycling there also almost none Randstad(Rotterdam, Amsterdam etc) cyclist although most people live in that area.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Very simple

East = Poor or lets say poorer therefore more desire to make better living
West = Rich(er) therefore less need to work super hard as good living standard is already provided

or at least something along those lines ....

nonsense. only reason almost all german cyclists are from east-germany is because whateve rlittle culture and possibilities there are in (track) cycling in germany are all in the east. it's always been that way too.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'll take a stab: structural reasons.

i.e. The East used to put a lot of resources into track cycling (and other Olympic sports), thus creating an elite level cycling culture. Transitions from track to road are pretty common.

this guy knows what he's talking about

 

[Der Effe]

It's always infrastructure and geographic reasons.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's always infrastructure and geographic reasons.

and popularity

 

[theyoungest]

Very simple

East = Poor or lets say poorer therefore more desire to make better living
West = Rich(er) therefore less need to work super hard as good living standard is already provided

or at least something along those lines ....

Are you the same guy who called Austria "just another East Germany"? Yes, please inform us about the state of Germany

East Germany has a sports culture and a sports structure in place. They also have the main German feeder team. And historically they've had access to the better clinics (or at least the more reckless clinics).

 

[barmaher]

I can't go with the poverty excuse.

In fact, looking at the upbringing of some of the most famous cyclists (Valverde, Rodriguez, Cancellara, Boonen, Wiggins, Tony Martin, Dan Martin, Cavendish, Degenkolb, Boonen, Evans, Gerrans) it would appear coming from a relatively comfortable upbringing is the trick. Obviously there are exceptions, and being Colombian can buck this trend.

Having a cycling family seems to help, too.

 

[Ryongsyong]

Actually since the USSR was so much into showing sporting success on the world stage as an endorsement of their political system, whatever you want to call it now it all stems from the politics of thirty+ years ago which still hangs around to this day. It's the same way German figure skaters (another favorite of the USSR) are either from the East or from other former Soviet countries like Ukraine, etc.

 

[Echoes]

Yeah okay, so Rudi Altig's biggest win is the Tour of Spain...

There had never been any other great past champions coming from West-Germany. Thurau sr, Junkermann, Braun and Gölz stink, perhaps...


Ciolek, Wegmann, Klemme, Fumic, König, Meisen, Arndt, Matzka, Thurau jr, Sütterlin, where are they from?


Sorry I don't see a significant superiority for former GDR over former FRG. But then again, OP only watches what we know... I'm watching all kinds of races...

 

[Akuryo]

Yeah okay, so Rudi Altig's biggest win is the Tour of Spain...

There had never been any other great past champions coming from West-Germany. Thurau sr, Junkermann, Braun and Gölz stink, perhaps...


Ciolek, Wegmann, Klemme, Fumic, König, Meisen, Arndt, Matzka, Thurau jr, Sütterlin, where are they from?


Sorry I don't see a significant superiority for former GDR over former FRG. But then again, OP only watches what we know... I'm watching all kinds of races...

And what have Wegmann, Klemme or Thurau achieved so far in their carrers? Look at Martin, Greipel, Degenkolb, Kittel for instance. And these are just the current riders. Nobody is denying that the western part of Germany also has produced some pros, but the riders from the east got better results for many years now.

 

[Echoes]

I rate Ciolek and Wegmann higher than Greipel and Kittel. Besides the OP has listed several riders who haven't really achieved more than Klemme.

You can't assess the depth of a pool if you strictly isolate top riders who of necessity are few...

Also Klemme was a top talent when he turned pro. I remember well. That should be taken into account.

There's a long tradition of cycle racing around Rheinland/Bade Wurtemberg, which means close to Belgium where the biggest stars from the sixties/seventies all are from: Altig, Wolfshohl, Junkermann, Thurau, Thaler and where Ciolek and Wegmann also are from.

 

[Der Effe]

and popularity

Without a doubt, but they're somehow related. Popularity leads to better infrastructure (and probably the other way around as well) and geographically seen it's easier to cycle (as a sport) 'in the province' than it is in Amsterdam, to name an example.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah okay, so Rudi Altig's biggest win is the Tour of Spain...

There had never been any other great past champions coming from West-Germany. Thurau sr, Junkermann, Braun and Gölz stink, perhaps...


Ciolek, Wegmann, Klemme, Fumic, König, Meisen, Arndt, Matzka, Thurau jr, Sütterlin, where are they from?


Sorry I don't see a significant superiority for former GDR over former FRG. But then again, OP only watches what we know... I'm watching all kinds of races...

pretty much all eastern europe

 

[Jancouver]

Are you the same guy who called Austria "just another East Germany"? Yes, please inform us about the state of Germany

East Germany has a sports culture and a sports structure in place. They also have the main German feeder team. And historically they've had access to the better clinics (or at least the more reckless clinics).

East Germany has a sports culture and a sports structure in place.

Yes, it was all because of the East vs West propaganda and all their athletic centers were built and fully sponsored by the communist governments in the 70's and 80's.

Please dont school me on this subject. I was a part of this since my 3rd grade when they showed up at our school, run some athletic tests and pick few talented kids from our school for their sports program.

In my case, it was tennis, but it was the same sport school for all the other sports. We had coaches, equipment and everything else. And it was all free paid by the government.

 

[Roude Leiw]

East Germany has a sports culture and a sports structure in place.

Yes, it was all because of the East vs West propaganda and all their athletic centers were built and fully sponsored by the communist governments in the 70's and 80's.

Please dont school me on this subject. I was a part of this since my 3rd grade when they showed up at our school, run some athletic tests and pick few talented kids from our school for their sports program.

In my case, it was tennis, but it was the same sport school for all the other sports. We had coaches, equipment and everything else. And it was all free paid by the government.

Than I am even more surprised by your first answer

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Two words: Peace. Race. This was on the East Germans' doorstep every year and was a much, much bigger deal than any West German races. The East Germans voted Täve Schur their best ever sportsperson, repeatedly, even as Uwe Ampler and Olaf Ludwig eclipsed his achievements. As Echoes mentions, the majority of West Germany's main cyclists are from areas where it is very easy to hop over the border to Belgium or eastern France to race.

However:

Ciolek, Wegmann, Klemme, Fumic, König, Meisen, Arndt, Matzka, Thurau jr, Sütterlin, where are they from?

Notwithstanding Ryo's comment about Eastern Europe, which is presumably about origins in the cases of Ciolek, Matzka, and also Sinkewitz who is another West German not mentioned, since these are all Slavic origin names, unless I'm missing something, Leopold König is a Czech who just happens to have a German-origin name, no different to Sinkewitz or Ciolek having Slavic-origin names? Just like Roman Kreuziger?

 

[TMP401]

I rate Ciolek and Wegmann higher than Greipel and Kittel. Besides the OP has listed several riders who haven't really achieved more than Klemme.

You can't assess the depth of a pool if you strictly isolate top riders who of necessity are few...

Also Klemme was a top talent when he turned pro. I remember well. That should be taken into account.

There's a long tradition of cycle racing around Rheinland/Bade Wurtemberg, which means close to Belgium where the biggest stars from the sixties/seventies all are from: Altig, Wolfshohl, Junkermann, Thurau, Thaler and where Ciolek and Wegmann also are from.

I thought I set out my stall clearly: I used the tdf 2012, 2013 and 2014 editions as a reasonable sample of current German talent. I'm fairly new to cycling so am not aware of history of West German cyclists of yesteryear.

 

[TMP401]

Two words: Peace. Race. This was on the East Germans' doorstep every year and was a much, much bigger deal than any West German races. The East Germans voted Täve Schur their best ever sportsperson, repeatedly, even as Uwe Ampler and Olaf Ludwig eclipsed his achievements. As Echoes mentions, the majority of West Germany's main cyclists are from areas where it is very easy to hop over the border to Belgium or eastern France to race.

Very informative thank you.

 

[Echoes]

Notwithstanding Ryo's comment about Eastern Europe, which is presumably about origins in the cases of Ciolek, Matzka, and also Sinkewitz who is another West German not mentioned, since these are all Slavic origin names, unless I'm missing something, Leopold König is a Czech who just happens to have a German-origin name, no different to Sinkewitz or Ciolek having Slavic-origin names? Just like Roman Kreuziger?

hmm I'm afraid so, but my fault for not making that clear, sorry. I was referring to Marco König, from Kaiserslautern.

I didn't think Ryo's post was to be taken seriously but what matters here is where those riders have grown up and which were their first cycling clubs. I don't exactly know that actually but I doubt Gerald Ciolek of Cologne went all the way back to the Czech Republic or former GDR to get his cycling licence.

 

[MellowJohnny]

I'm reading Race against the Stasi as the moment, about an East German cyclist who defected to the West.

In short I think the East threw so much more at cycling in particular in comparison to the West with football, yes the peace race also helped massively and East German success in Cycling coupled with West German success in Football.

Its similar to say why Australia are good at cricket or New Zealand at rugby.

I'd recommend the Race against the Stasi from what I have read so far. and also Bounce by Matthew Syed.