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Why do you feel so strongly PERSONALLY about these STRANGERS?

Whether you're a Lance fanboy or a Lance hater, I don't get it. And it's not just Lance. There has been a lot of strong personal feelings expressed for other riders too, most recently Vino.

These are people you have never met. You don't know them. They are total and complete STRANGERS to you. Don't be confused. Whatever feelings you have, they are meaningless, and based on public personas that have little if anything to do with who these people really are. They just bounce around random cr@p in your subconscious minds to produce results as meaningful as a stupid dream. Yet you take this nonsense so seriously!

How can you assign any kind of significance to feelings you have for a person you have never met, much less walked a mile in their moccasins?

They are bike racers. They race bikes. They say things to add to the drama. It's all very entertaining. This is not about morality or character. We don't know them. We are in no position to judge people we don't know.

What is the matter with you? What are you missing?
OR... what is the matter with me? What am I missing?
 
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Why shouldn't people feel strongly, it's human nature. People feel strongly about all kinds of things that they aren't directly involved in. Besides, without the fans the pro riders would only be amateurs.
 
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another thread on a topic already talked to death.

Is it possible for the person that opens a thread to delete it?

This is a waste of space.
 
Epicycle said:
Why shouldn't people feel strongly, it's human nature. People feel strongly about all kinds of things that they aren't directly involved in. Besides, without the fans the pro riders would only be amateurs.
Hey, I feel very strongly about the race, and the racers as racers. I'm a huge fan of the sport. I'm a huge fan of those who participate. But I'm a fan of them as racers in particular, not as people in general.

What I don't get are the strong feelings about the character and morality of these complete strangers. Why is it so personal? So and so is a "great guy". How the F do you know? "But blah is an a-hole". Really? Based on what? Because he said the Tour last year was a "bit of a joke"? It's just bizarre to me, but apparently I'm in the minority.
 
jackhammer111 said:
another thread on a topic already talked to death.

Is it possible for the person that opens a thread to delete it?

This is a waste of space.
I'm sorry, I have not seen any other threads on this topic. I'd be happy to continue in a thread where this discussion was already happening, if someone would provide a link to it.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
Hey, I feel very strongly about the race, and the racers as racers. I'm a huge fan of the sport. I'm a huge fan of those who participate. But I'm a fan of them as racers in particular, not as people in general.

What I don't get are the strong feelings about the character and morality of these complete strangers. Why is it so personal? So and so is a "great guy". How the F do you know? "But blah is an a-hole". Really? Based on what? Because he said the Tour last year was a "bit of a joke"? It's just bizarre to me, but apparently I'm in the minority.
Why do you have that picture of Landis as your avatar? For most fans it's a picture that resonates issues beyond him just being a racer.
 
Epicycle said:
Why do you have that picture of Landis as your avatar? For most fans it's a picture that resonates issues beyond him just being a racer.
I was thinking about what picture I should use, and decided to look for that one because I think it says a lot. That win was arguably one of the most dramatic wins ever. Such a high, and then such a low. I think that face represents the drama in this sport, which is why I'm such a fan.

Edit: but if it's a problem, I'll change it. Just found one of Bob Roll.
 
Well I'm not a psychologist so I really don't know the answer to your question but I do think that empathy and self-identification with others is a basic human personality trait.

The Tour (and the sport in general) is kind of like a big play or opera and the riders are actors in a drama. So based on their actions and statements I think people kind of enjoy stamping "hero" and "villian" roles on them.
 
Also if you saw "Hell on Wheels" they interviewed this French historian guy that had catalogued the history of the Tour. He had this cool quote that has something to do with your question:

"The Tour has always been a story of men: great men, and lessor ones."
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
I was thinking about what picture I should use, and decided to look for that one because I think it says a lot. That win was arguably one of the most dramatic wins ever. Such a high, and then such a low. I think that face represents the drama in this sport, which is why I'm such a fan.

Edit: but if it's a problem, I'll change it. Just found one of Bob Roll.
I don't think it's a problem at all. I just think that Floyd's personality is a huge part of the saga of the 2006 Tour, at least a part of his personality is. And when a personality looms that large it's natural to make judgments. I thought what he did to Lemond was awful. People do awful things every day. Even people that I know personally. I've treated people badly in the past. But I've never threatened to use private knowledge of someone's sexual abuse as a weapon against them. I know Lemond eventually testified against him but I thought Floyd and his manager's behaviour was inexcusable.
 
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I think this is a very worthy topic and not discussed enough.

People identify strongly with these guys. . . . maybe because they've lost, or never known their own identity.
 
lostintime said:
I think this is a very worthy topic and not discussed enough.

People identify strongly with these guys. . . . maybe because they've lost, or never known their own identity.
I'm not a big sporting fan in general, but my impression is that fans of other sports are not so obsessed about the personalities, characters and moralities of the greats in those other sports. I mean, sure, you have strong personalities in all sports, but not these obsessions, and not such strong personal feelings about them.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
I'm not a big sporting fan in general, but my impression is that fans of other sports are not so obsessed about the personalities, characters and moralities of the greats in those other sports. I mean, sure, you have strong personalities in all sports, but not these obsessions, and not such strong personal feelings about them.
I browse other message boards pertaining to sports I follow...mostly football and college basketball...and I think cycling fans are actually more reserved in general about this.
 
Epicycle said:
I browse other message boards pertaining to sports I follow...mostly football and college basketball...and I think cycling fans are actually more reserved in general about this.

Really? Think you could find a thread on a football, baseball, tennis, swimming or basketball forum titled along the lines of, "People in name-of-that-sport who you would like to kick in the balls"?
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
Really? Think you could find a thread on a football, baseball, tennis, swimming or basketball forum titled along the lines of, "People in name-of-that-sport who you would like to kick in the balls"?
Not sure about tennis or swimming but for the rest...oh yeah. A lot of the time it's a member of a fan's team that gets the most abuse. At least 90% of NFL quarterbacks get figuratively murdered on hometown message boards when they have bad games. Check out the Philadelphia Eagles board after Donovan McNabb leads them to a loss. College kids, even high school recruits, are routinely blasted by fans whose ideals they don't live up to. It's routine stuff. Same goes for off the field stuff if a fan feels dissed or the player has some kind of scandal emerge.
 
Epicycle said:
Not sure about tennis or swimming but for the rest...oh yeah. A lot of the time it's a member of a fan's team that gets the most abuse. At least 90% of NFL quarterbacks get figuratively murdered on hometown message boards when they have bad games. Check out the Philadelphia Eagles board after Donovan McNabb leads them to a loss. College kids, even high school recruits, are routinely blasted by fans whose ideals they don't live up to. It's routine stuff. Same goes for off the field stuff if a fan feels dissed or the player has some kind of scandal emerge.

Okay, well it would make more sense if it wasn't limited to cycling fans, but I still don't get it. The lack of perspective is disappointing.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
Whether you're a Lance fanboy or a Lance hater, I don't get it. And it's not just Lance. There has been a lot of strong personal feelings expressed for other riders too, most recently Vino.

These are people you have never met. You don't know them. They are total and complete STRANGERS to you. Don't be confused. Whatever feelings you have, they are meaningless, and based on public personas that have little if anything to do with who these people really are. They just bounce around random cr@p in your subconscious minds to produce results as meaningful as a stupid dream. Yet you take this nonsense so seriously!

How can you assign any kind of significance to feelings you have for a person you have never met, much less walked a mile in their moccasins?

They are bike racers. They race bikes. They say things to add to the drama. It's all very entertaining. This is not about morality or character. We don't know them. We are in no position to judge people we don't know.

What is the matter with you? What are you missing?
OR... what is the matter with me? What am I missing?

Your answer lies within. You post strong personal feelings about people you do not know who post opinions on a forum. Why do you do it?
 
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It's a group dynamic known as "BIRGing" and "CORFing".

Basking In Reflective Glory occurs when you personally identify with winners and winning - whether it's a team or a "player".

Cutting Off Reflective Failure occurs when you personally dissociate from losers and failure - whether it's a team or a "player".

A lot of current Armstrong BIRGing going on here.

A lot of current Dekker CORFing going on here too.

The interesting part of this phenomena, is you can always play one side, then switch to the other at the drop of a headline. And that is what makes for interesting and dynamic conversation.

Of course, for all of us here, no matter what position you take on the topic, the opposition always appears to have weak arguments due to built in bias for their favorite--or hatred of their most loathed. At that point, it doesn't matter whose side you are on, it's the best argument coupled with the best facts that wins.
 
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Epicycle said:
I browse other message boards pertaining to sports I follow...mostly football and college basketball...and I think cycling fans are actually more reserved in general about this.



This is absolutely true. College football comes to mind. I seem to remember a coach in Florida who some fans hated so much they started a website called FireRonZook.com That's puttin' your money where your mouth is! I see there is still a blog by that name, and the coach has been gone from Florida for years! Have you ever wondered why at every college football game in the South, a State Trooper is next to the coach at All times? I'm surprised no one has ever tried to hurt a coach, but the troopers are a deterrent.

I live in the Pittsburgh media market. Fans here talk about Steelers, Penguins and Pirate players like they are a part of the team, doing drills..... in the locker room. They say we when referring to the players. Talk about mis-identification.

Then again, where else but cycling to get a fan to punch Eddie Merckx in the kidney in the middle of the TDF. Nuts!
 
Thoughtforfood said:
Your answer lies within. You post strong personal feelings about people you do not know who post opinions on a forum. Why do you do it?

:eek:

I don't have any strong personal feelings about anyone posting anything on this forum. What are you talking about? Are you conflating my strong feelings for some of the statements made on this board with strong feelings about the people presumably making them?
 
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lostintime said:
This is absolutely true. College football comes to mind. I seem to remember a coach in Florida who some fans hated so much they started a website called FireRonZook.com That's puttin' your money where your mouth is! I see there is still a blog by that name, and the coach has been gone from Florida for years! Have you ever wondered why at every college football game in the South, a State Trooper is next to the coach at All times? I'm surprised no one has ever tried to hurt a coach, but the troopers are a deterrent.

I live in the Pittsburgh media market. Fans here talk about Steelers, Penguins and Pirate players like they are a part of the team, doing drills..... in the locker room. They say we when referring to the players. Talk about mis-identification.

Then again, where else but cycling to get a fan to punch Eddie Merckx in the kidney in the middle of the TDF. Nuts!

Actually, Zook was bad, but Spurrier is the anti-Christ.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
:eek:

I don't have any strong personal feelings about anyone posting anything on this forum. What are you talking about? Are you conflating my strong feelings for some of the statements made on this board with strong feelings about the people presumably making them?

You are either willfully dishonest or have little to no introspection. And I quote "For crying out loud, what a bunch of envious ***." Not "...what a bunch of envious *** statements" or anything of the kind. It is almost as if you think your previous posts that contain PERSONAL insults are hidden from view once you deny them.
 
Thoughtforfood said:
You are either willfully dishonest or have little to no introspection. And I quote "For crying out loud, what a bunch of envious ***." Not "...what a bunch of envious *** statements" or anything of the kind. It is almost as if you think your previous posts that contain PERSONAL insults are hidden from view once you deny them.
Oh, please. "A bunch of ***" is just a figure of speech, and when taken in context was clearly meant as a general statement about what was being said here, not focused on anyone in particular.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
Oh, please. "A bunch of ***" is just a figure of speech, and when taken in context was clearly meant as a general statement about what was being said here, not focused on anyone in particular.

OK, you are just a dishonest person. Ignore it is.