Why does BMC struggle to get wins under their belt?

[LukeSchmid]

If I were in charge of BMC the riders I would look to replace are:

Chad Beyer
Martin Kohler
Jeff Louder
John Murphy
Danilo Wyss
Simon Zahner

There might be a couple more that are close to that list as well. I'll add the caveat that I don't know that much about these riders so if there are injuries etc that is standing in the way of their development then that could change things of course.

Most of these are riders that haven't really earned a place in the PT. They seem to owe their place to some type of Swiss/US quota rather than having shown that they are at a level that is needed in the PT.

If you remove these types of riders and replace them with tested well experienced PT riders that have the ability to win once in a while then things could change very fast.

I agree, this list is not very impressive. Maybe Wyss can find himself as a leadout man if they get a good sprinter next year. Beyer at 24 may have sometime to impress, but it needs to come soon.

Their main problem though is they needs a sprinter or two. Hopefully Kristoff can start doing something but I am not too confident.

 

[ingsve]

But what do these guys do for the team who carries water bottles and works up front when they have a rider in GC. all the team cant be winners they must earn their keep somewher or for sure BMC will drop them like a lead baloon.

There heaps of riders who are never alowed to show tallent in many teams especialy teams that have a guy going for GC.

Turn off ther radio and maybe they may show some tallent but with team boss yelling down your earhole all day what can they do.

Well, this is a thread about BMC not winning enough races so my post is about how to make them a better team for the PT level that they are at right now. Riders like the ones I listed can possibly have a place in the PT but if a team strives to be at the top among the PTs then riders like that are dead weight.

If you look at other teams that are well established at the PT level then you find that all teams have riders that don't win regularly or in other ways get good results but in the other top teams those riders are often older and more experienced riders rather than being young riders who have never shown anything at this level. If you want riders that are mostly there as support that can carry bottles, work at the front of the peloton or protect a leader from the wind then it's better to have someone like Karsten Kroon. Older riders have a thoughness that young riders simply don't have. If you have young riders you want them to be full of potential. A rider like Taylor Phinney is a good example of a type of young rider to have. He will be filling a domestique role in a lot of races the coming years but he is also a very talented riders who can deliver results, first in smaller races then in gradually bigger races. The riders I mentioned have ridden a lot of the top races for several years and have never shown any real results at all. That's the crucial difference.

 

[Sydney21]

I agree, this list is not very impressive. Maybe Wyss can find himself as a leadout man if they get a good sprinter next year. Beyer at 24 may have sometime to impress, but it needs to come soon.

Their main problem though is they needs a sprinter or two. Hopefully Kristoff can start doing something but I am not too confident

I agree however danielo Wyss is one of the most devoted domestiques in the world at the moment there is not a chance in hell that you'd let him do anywhere. Whoever it was who suggested that BMC need to get rid of him needs to stop looking at results sheets and start watching year-round racing.

Beyer needs more time you're right.

BMC need sprinter. Someone like Guardini or something that they can take to the Giro to give them a realistic shot on the flat stages. Without Cadel in a GT team the type of riders they have really lends them to only being strong in the transitional stages. No real other climbers and no real sprinters.

But the lack of quantitiy of wins for BMC is really no problem because they make up for it through quality and being up front in most races around the calender.

 

[movingtarget]

Plenty of teams are in the same boat. If Cancellara does not win who will win for Leopard ? Schleck may win the Tour but probably nothing else. If Contador does not win who will win for his team ? If Boonen does not win who will win for Quickstep ? Apart from Cavendish's team who also has Goss and Martin. Most teams rely on one or two riders for their wins. BMC has Evans, Burghardt and Ballan.

The three of them are riding well and the BMC Team from what we have seen so far this season, is much better than last year and more aggressive. They won the Tirreno. They had three riders in the mix at the end of the Milan San Remo. Greg V A, Ballan finished fourth and Burghardt rode well. This is an improvement on last year. Hincapie has been a solid rider over a long career but he is not in the team to win races now although few people would begrudge him a win in a one day classic to end his career on. I think Hincapie is there as more a of a team captain and mentor for the younger guys. He is not the same rider he was a few years ago. I think BMC is looking pretty good and some of their younger riders should kick on in the next few years. Greg V A is riding well and Kroon went okay in the PN.

They don't have a Contador or a Cavendish but I still think they can win good races this year.

 

[theyoungest]

But the lack of quantitiy of wins for BMC is really no problem because they make up for it through quality and being up front in most races around the calender.

No, they're not up front in most races around the calendar. Last year they only featured in races with Evans. They don't have the necessary depth a WorldTour team needs, that's the main problem.

 

[El Pistolero]

No, they're not up front in most races around the calendar. Last year they only featured in races with Evans. They don't have the necessary depth a WorldTour team needs, that's the main problem.

This year they have done pretty good so far though. They were up there in T-A and San Remo.

Greg and Ballan just need to step up their level and they could have a World Tour level result.

Without Boonen and Gilbert neither Quickstep or Lotto would be worth World Tour as well(that's why they need to merge )

And there really aren't any other teams that you can give a Protour status that are better than BMC(not Geox lol)

 

[movingtarget]

I think BMC can put their best riders in a position to win. Maybe not as frequently as High Road but then that team wins more races than any other team. I think they have the goods, it's just about performing on the day and their best riders getting results. I suppose their performances in the classics and grand tours should tell us more. But this year, so far so good.

 

[ingsve]

We'll see where they end up at the end of the year. I think that anything less than 10 wins in a season is not good enough for a ProTeam. Last year they had 4 wins as a pro conti team but they have strengthened the team since then so 10 wins shouldn't be impossible.

 

[joy118118]

BMC wins more than any other team like Liquigas, Rabobank? at least not in this year.

 

[kurtinsc]

I remember reading an article about high road a couple of years ago, prior to them becoming HTC. They had some interviews with Stapleton and he talked about the change the team went through coming from the T-mobile days.

Basically, he looked at the team at that time and realized they really had no shot at GC's in major races. He saw some good TT riders and good sprinters... and realized that by building on those strengths rather then chase the impossible dream of GC glory, the team would take in a huge amount of wins, both in TT and sprint stages, as well as in stage races dominated by a single TT.

It made a lot of sense... and it's been proven true. Teams with strong TT/Sprint setups like HTC and Garmin DO rack up a lot more wins then those that are climbing/classic oriented. Even a team like Liquigas last year that is more focused on stage racing had 12 of their 40 wins from Bennatti, Guarnieri and Chicchi in sprints, 5 Sagan wins that were "sprintish", and 2 TT's.


So BMC lacks what I would consider even a second tier sprinter, and their TT riding isn't superb either (though they're hoping Phinney turns into that kind of guy). They are going to have a much harder time getting wins without sprinter/TT specialists.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

yeah but bmc is hardly a climbing/gc team, and tho they have a good classics team, they are far from the strongest.

 

[kurtinsc]

yeah but bmc is hardly a climbing/gc team, and tho they have a good classics team, they are far from the strongest.

Regardless of their focus... they have no sprinters or time trialists of note. Even their classics guys aren't exactly quick finishers. Other then Cadel who can put a little uphill sprint together at the end of the race, they don't have many who will be among the fastest at the finish of a small group in the classics.

Even at his peak a few years back, Ballan was closer to a Hoste finisher then a Boonen or even Cancellera. Perhaps strong enough to make the final group... but nowhere near strong enough to win a sprint from that group.

 

[Matthijs]

It would be enough to have someone like Pinotti or Millar who are consistent performers who usually get one or two TT wins per year.

It would be enough to have Millar? As if it is easy too have a top3 world class rider in any discipline in cycling...

and not all races are flat, come on. But a lot of guys can win hilly 200k races, deal with it.

 

[ingsve]

It would be enough to have Millar? As if it is easy too have a top3 world class rider in any discipline in cycling...

and not all races are flat, come on. But a lot of guys can win hilly 200k races, deal with it.

I used Pinotti and Millar as examples of TTers that are not the absolute top of the world but that are consistent performers that can produce TT victories. My point is that to get more TT victories in a year you don't need to have the absolute best TTers in the world like Cancellara and Martin. And no, I do not consider Millar to be in the top 3 TTers in the world.

 

[LukeSchmid]

yeah but bmc is hardly a climbing/gc team, and tho they have a good classics team, they are far from the strongest.

That is exactly right. Last year they were Cadel Evans plus a group of 1 days racers, except for perhaps Moriabito and Frank and some riders who might be domestiques at best. They had no plans to ride a GT last year until Evans came into the picture quite late. They had to try to support Evans with riders who were not suited to it or just not up to it. If they didn't ride GTs last year then they would have been able to focus their riders on more realistic goals and perhaps picked up more wins, maybe not as high profile as Evan's wins at FW and Giro but more wins. This year they have brought in some climbers, Tschopp, Moinard etc and Van Avermaet and look much better. Hopefully Ballan, Santambriogio and Kroon will have full seasons as well.
BMC are a team that are at least a year ahead of where they planned to be in August 2009 because of Evans. They lack depth but we a few more good recruits at the end of the year should fix that up to a large extent. And I think everyone agrees they need a decent sprinter, but their focus this year was on getting climbers to help Evans.

 

[movingtarget]

I remember reading an article about high road a couple of years ago, prior to them becoming HTC. They had some interviews with Stapleton and he talked about the change the team went through coming from the T-mobile days.

Basically, he looked at the team at that time and realized they really had no shot at GC's in major races. He saw some good TT riders and good sprinters... and realized that by building on those strengths rather then chase the impossible dream of GC glory, the team would take in a huge amount of wins, both in TT and sprint stages, as well as in stage races dominated by a single TT.

It made a lot of sense... and it's been proven true. Teams with strong TT/Sprint setups like HTC and Garmin DO rack up a lot more wins then those that are climbing/classic oriented. Even a team like Liquigas last year that is more focused on stage racing had 12 of their 40 wins from Bennatti, Guarnieri and Chicchi in sprints, 5 Sagan wins that were "sprintish", and 2 TT's.


So BMC lacks what I would consider even a second tier sprinter, and their TT riding isn't superb either (though they're hoping Phinney turns into that kind of guy). They are going to have a much harder time getting wins without sprinter/TT specialists.

I think that is true. But team budgets are not limitless and High Road are spending a lot of money on Cavendish and the other sprinters which means Martin and Velits won't get much support in the mountains and the management are okay with that because they know that at the moment they won't win a grand tour.

Greg V A is not in the top tier of sprinters and Ballan, I see him more as a Gilbert type rider. He won't out sprint quality sprinters. So BMC are one of those in between teams. More like a Radio Shack type team without the quality veterans like Leipheimer and Kloden and Horner. I suppose Evans is now in that category but he is more versatile than the former two. Maybe they should have gone the Rabobank direction and picked a up a young quality sprinter like Michael Matthews but then he is the best young sprinter in the world, potentially and many teams were trying to sign him. I see BMC as building for the future but of course if wins don't come I am certain that they will let riders go and sign new ones as teams always do. Hincapie is near retirement and they are obviously hoping that Kroon, Ballan, Burghardt and Greg V A will pick up some wins this year along with Evans. Their early season has been encouraging.

 

[BroDeal]

Don't worry, bros. Hincapie is just warming up. This will be the year he wins P-R or Flanders.

In contrast, Evans will once again be tired at the Tour after overdoing it in the spring.

 

[jaylew]

Without Boonen and Gilbert neither Quickstep or Lotto would be worth World Tour as well(that's why they need to merge )

That's a scary thought. I think we'd have to put you up there with ACF and DT in fandom if that happened.

 

[auscyclefan94]

That is exactly right. Last year they were Cadel Evans plus a group of 1 days racers, except for perhaps Moriabito and Frank and some riders who might be domestiques at best. They had no plans to ride a GT last year until Evans came into the picture quite late. They had to try to support Evans with riders who were not suited to it or just not up to it. If they didn't ride GTs last year then they would have been able to focus their riders on more realistic goals and perhaps picked up more wins, maybe not as high profile as Evan's wins at FW and Giro but more wins. This year they have brought in some climbers, Tschopp, Moinard etc and Van Avermaet and look much better. Hopefully Ballan, Santambriogio and Kroon will have full seasons as well.
BMC are a team that are at least a year ahead of where they planned to be in August 2009 because of Evans. They lack depth but we a few more good recruits at the end of the year should fix that up to a large extent. And I think everyone agrees they need a decent sprinter, but their focus this year was on getting climbers to help Evans.

Morabito finished 4th in the tour de suisse. I think he is more than a "domestiques at best".

This year they have had a fair few close calls. Just some hypotheticals, what if gilbert and nibali didn't ramp up the pace on the poggio? The group wasn't going overly hard until those two attacked. What if Ballan didn't take the corner so badly in Giro di Sardegna stage 1 or Monte Paschi Strade Bianche?

BMC seems to be a whipping boy but there could of been quite a few other big wins this season if they have a bit more luck which is required.

Though improvement is required.

No, they're not up front in most races around the calendar. Last year they only featured in races with Evans. They don't have the necessary depth a WorldTour team needs, that's the main problem.

Well I think that means quite a few other teams should not have protour licenses based on your premise. Are you all for the protour being smaller in the future than it is at the moment?

 

[theyoungest]

Well I think that means quite a few other teams should not have protour licenses based on your premise. Are you all for the protour being smaller in the future than it is at the moment?

I don't think BMC should be thrown out of the WorldTour, but I was responding to someone who said that BMC is up front in most races around the calendar, and I thought: hold on, that's absolutely not true. You can be a BMC fan, but you don't need to be blind.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I don't think BMC should be thrown out of the WorldTour, but I was responding to someone who said that BMC is up front in most races around the calendar, and I thought: hold on, that's absolutely not true. You can be a BMC fan, but you don't need to be blind.

Sorry, I should of read the quoted post.

 

[movingtarget]

I don't think BMC should be thrown out of the WorldTour, but I was responding to someone who said that BMC is up front in most races around the calendar, and I thought: hold on, that's absolutely not true. You can be a BMC fan, but you don't need to be blind.

What they should have said is that BMC are not as anonomous as last year.

 

[joy118118]

does anyone here know the race schedule of Mini Phinney?

 

[kurtinsc]

does anyone here know the race schedule of Mini Phinney?

At this point, I think it all depends on his knee. He's already had 2-3 different schedules get dumped due to his knee issues.

 

[LukeSchmid]

Morabito finished 4th in the tour de suisse. I think he is more than a "domestiques at best".

Definitely, I specifically mentioned him as a rider who was not one of the domestiques at best. He did okay at ToC as well I think. He apart from Evans was the only rider who you could consider as a possible GC rider in one week races.