Why I will always be a "fanboy" and proud of it

[Dr. Maserati]

ha ha...that made me laugh more than the ferrari gag....back to your old ways....keep twisting and you might actually start to believe it

I don't have to admire anyone....i just do....and i am interested to see if you or some of those who share your opinions do....or if you hate everyone....in which case I am sorry for you<snipped for brevity>

No need to feel sorry for me at all - as it is yet another strawman you offer in way of anything productive.

Actually,I completely understand Lances position - the lie's, denials, deceit, arrogance etc- but I have no idea why you would admire that.

 

[straydog]

No need to feel sorry for me at all - as it is yet another strawman you offer in way of anything productive.

Actually,I completely understand Lances position - the lie's, denials, deceit, arrogance etc- but I have no idea why you would admire that.

Read why I admire him....then read it again....then read this bit:

Again something i thought i would never say....but until you offer something coherent....anything....for me to respond to....i am going to completely ignore your incessant wittering....honestly i have heard more sense from six year olds.

So please do enjoy throwing out your buzzword..."strawman".... as often as you like, if your seeming complete inabilty to comprehend anything that you don't agree with leaves you with no other form of attack.

Or better still go and not answer some other questions in someone else's thread

 

[Race Radio]

my thoughts as someone who's been accused of being a LA fanboy (because I think he's naturally much better than some claim) and a hater (because I think he's a pretty despicable character:

-he's pretty obsessed about what people think of him. If the Flandis thing turns him into Barry Bonds, he'll be pretty P.O'd. He really needs a positive legacy.

-your image of a happy Lance sitting by the pool doesn't square too well with what I know of the guy. Most of what I know is second hand (outside of him yelling at me when I refused to get out of his way for a feed). However, "happy" is about the last word that comes to mind. That dude is never going to be happy. He's fueled with an anger that makes Greg LeMond seem at peace. In a certain sense, I'm jealous of that rage. If I had it, I know I'd be a better bike racer. That sort of rage serves you well in competition, not so well in life.

-I think people dislike him for different reasons, but the biggest reason is that he's the playground bully, pure and simple. You have the whole cast of characters, the talented protagonist who is just as athletic as the playground bully, but nicer (Contador), the less-talented chamois-carrying sycophants (Hincapie), the weasally kid who tries hard but is afraid of the bully (Tyler), and the troubled kid who is "friends" with the playground bully, but always has a deep disdain for him...and turns on him when he ends up getting in trouble (Floyd even looks the part). You have the playground monitor who ignores our playground hero (but he's playing around with underage girls, so he can't really say anything...you can enter your own villain here). Then, you have the BMOC a-hole, pushing everyone around.

Many people empathize with these characters, and they simply hate the playground bully.

Folks like you look at the spoils the bully receives with admiration and figure, "hey, survival of the fittest". And I totally get that. It fills some others with a total rage over the whole thing, over the unfairness of it all. I get that, too.

As for me, I enjoy watching the whole train wreck, because I'm like that. I respect his determination and ability, I hate his abuse of others, but mostly I pity his general sense of unease. He doesn't strike me as a fellow who will ever really be at peace.

Spot on description. The one thing I would add is insecurity, this is what drives him.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Or better still go and not answer some other questions in someone else's thread

It's my thread, go away if you are not going to answer the way I want you to.

..............

 

[Boeing]

Good for you. Woop de do.

(PS, Did ANYONE read all that because I certainly didn't)

i'd have to medicate to finish it.

 

[straydog]

all those people with cancer who believe they will be ok because they keep buying items with yellow highlights and a swoosh logo, and now the numbers 1275 and 28.

and buddy....you clearly hold cancer sufferers in some contempt if you think they buy a bracelet because they believe it will make them ok....they are suffering from cancer....not mental incapacity....the bracelets are a message of solidarity....of rememberance....of hope...and I really hope you read your post again and feel proud....show it to your friends and family as an example...like I have been trying to say....some of this Hate is truely mindless

And anyone who wants to try and defend what he said...take a good long look in the mirror tonight....that face....bitter isn't it?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Read why I admire him....then read it again....then read this bit:

Again something i thought i would never say....but until you offer something coherent....anything....for me to respond to....i am going to completely ignore your incessant wittering....honestly i have heard more sense from six year olds.

So please do enjoy throwing out your buzzword..."strawman".... as often as you like, if your seeming complete inabilty to comprehend anything that you don't agree with leaves you with no other form of attack.

Or better still go and not answer some other questions in someone else's thread

What question did you ask me?

I saw questions - but then you put in your view "I'll ask the haters" etc....
Is that not a strawman? Putting in an arguement no-one made?

Its not an 'attack', just an observation - I dont feel the need to say "honestly i have heard more sense from six year olds" - to make a point, but if it helps you, I will try.

 

[The Freak]

my thoughts as someone who's been accused of being a LA fanboy (because I think he's naturally much better than some claim) and a hater (because I think he's a pretty despicable character:.

It's interesting to me that you'd have such detailed psychological profile, that you cannot really know to be true, about someone famous. That is very common nowadays - celebrities have become very useful for this purpose.

Look you have to understand that people are different in life. You clearly have a personality clash with the person that you believe Armstrong is, and you dislike his intense need for loyality and acclaim that he has. But that's not a reason to hate on the guy. Just accept he is a different person to you and respect him for his good points. You will feel much better in yourself rather than inventing grand reasons to hate somebody.

As you get older this 'I hate that dude' mentality gets really old and you learn to grow up. Armstrong himself has been through that process.

 

[Valverde fanboy]

I would add from my last post that this is often the nature of the beast with successful people. Armstrong is a pretty open guy - he writes about how he was motivated by anger in his earlier years, and recently in interviews stated that he is highly strung and saw the same in Contador. Lemond is like that too.

I guess I'm not highly strung enough to hate on him for that. (Obsessive yes.) I recognise that it's just his personality type and is only an aspect of his overall character. In fact it's quite comical to me how upset people get by it. It's the fact that I can see it too that makes it so funny when others get their buttons pressed by such a character.

People are different - get over it!

 

[andy1234]

Its the Buckwheat, Maserati, Race Radio tag team....
Get out of here man, they are a force to be reckoned with.
Forget your opinion, that doesnt count. Forget asking logical questions, that doesnt count either. They know better because they crusade for right and wrong.
Anyone who dopes = bad
Anyone who fights doping = good

Understood?

 

[Benotti69]

.....

Anyone who dopes = bad
Anyone who fights doping = good

....

In sporting terms, BINGO!

i see the McQuackPuppy dropped by again.

 

[andy1234]

In sporting terms, BINGO!

i see the McQuackPuppy dropped by again.

Lovely simplistic view, stick with it.

"McQuackPuppy"? What are you talking about?

 

[Benotti69]

Lovely simplistic view, stick with it.

isn't it. I don't see what is so hard. Steal = wrong, dont steal = right. same for doping.

Humans make life so complicated when in reality it does not have to be. Dopers and their supporters want us to believe they have no choice, lovely simplistic view.

"McQuackPuppy"? What are you talking about?

OP

 

[andy1234]

isn't it. I don't see what is so hard. Steal = wrong, dont steal = right. same for doping.

Humans make life so complicated when in reality it does not have to be. Dopers and their supporters want us to believe they have no choice, lovely simplistic view.




OP

Great analogy -
How about stealing because your family is starving to death. Dramatic I know, but life is just not as simple as you make out.

 

[callac]

How about stealing because your family is starving to death.

Then stealing is forgivable, excusable. But stealing is still bad. People stealing, even if they have to, would in most cases prefer to live honest and be able to buy their stuff.

Being "anti-stealing" is not about being judgmental or righteous, but about trying to make things better so that no one has to steal.

 

[Benotti69]

Great analogy -
How about stealing because your family is starving to death. Dramatic I know, but life is just not as simple as you make out.

oh i see LA doped because him and his Ma were starving to death in texas. Well yiipppedodah he is cleared of all charges.

Stealing is wrong. Stealing to feed oneself is still wrong, but if you did it with the right intentions you would go back after, if at all possible, explain and repay for that theft. If you gotta steal your whole life, well there is something seriously wrong going on and are going about living your life in the wrong way.

If you want to bring LA into this analogy he didn't have to steal 1 TdF, he had already won a lot of palamares and made a lot of money, so why steal????

 

[andy1234]

oh i see LA doped because him and his Ma were starving to death in texas. Well yiipppedodah he is cleared of all charges.

Stealing is wrong. Stealing to feed oneself is still wrong, but if you did it with the right intentions you would go back after, if at all possible, explain and repay for that theft. If you gotta steal your whole life, well there is something seriously wrong going on and are going about living your life in the wrong way.

If you want to bring LA into this analogy he didn't have to steal 1 TdF, he had already won a lot of palamares and made a lot of money, so why steal????

I used the example to counter your life is simple Theory. It wasnt meant to be taken literaly.
I give up.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Every single rider who's career was cut short because they chose to rode clean. Every single rider who couldn't make it as a pro because they refused to dope. Every single rider who lost their job to a doper. Every single rider who could have had a much more successful career if they hadn't had to ride against dopers.

There were hundreds, if not thousands, who were cheated by Armstrong and his ilk. But they never really seem to count to the fanboys, do they?

No, it wasn't, and anyone who believes it was a level playing field is simply rationalizing and making excuses.

No it wasn't a level playing field. The bigger question is, how much more of a level playing field is it now? Is it or a some people crazy enough to believe that this was a completly clean tour this year?

 

[Benotti69]

No it wasn't a level playing field.

It can never be a 'level' playing field but it cant try and be an honest one.

The bigger question is, how much more of a level playing field is it now? Is it or a some people crazy enough to believe that this was a completly clean tour this year?

Nope not clean.

 

[straydog]

No it wasn't a level playing field. The bigger question is, how much more of a level playing field is it now? Is it or a some people crazy enough to believe that this was a completly clean tour this year?

Ok i will ignore the entirely subjective "level playing field" issue for the moment....as i don't want to repeat myself....if you want to know why...then please go back and read what i have already said

Ok so what about it's level now? Completely clean? Anyone who believes that...well good luck Dorothy....as you say au revoir to Kansas.

Actually i think the much derided passport is helping level the playing field....by setting parameters that essentially mean that (apart from the HGH) anything someone takes or does can only be used to have such marginal gains, as to become almost pointless. The HGH test isn't far off by the way....but there will be always be room for manoeuvre there too. And there are already and will always be newer ways and drugs to circumnavigae the rules.

Aussie....i am interested you are a big Evans fan...did you read his comments in Pro cycling about LA a few years back....that must have been dissapointing. And I know this will upset you, but the day Cadel starts winning grand tours is the day i reach for the remote

Hi Coca Cola....congrats on your impending confirmation pm that you have been accepted for junior membership of the hate cult....a few more posts, preferably with some more arbitary received "wisdoms", and they will promote you to senior. Have such fun!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Its the Buckwheat, Maserati, Race Radio tag team....
Get out of here man, they are a force to be reckoned with.
Forget your opinion, that doesn't count. Forget asking logical questions, that doesn't count either. They know better because they crusade for right and wrong.
Anyone who dopes = bad
Anyone who fights doping = good

Understood?

'Andy' - I have never ever said "anyone who dopes = bad", nor do I think that.

You're entitled to your opinion as much as I am - although I believe your post has more to do with the LeMond thread, where you did ask a logical question if LeMond had talked about doping prior to 99 - but when that was given to you, you requested different information which 'appeared' to suit a preconceived notion.

 

[andy1234]

'Andy' - I have never ever said "anyone who dopes = bad", nor do I think that.

You're entitled to your opinion as much as I am - although I believe your post has more to do with the LeMond thread, where you did ask a logical question if LeMond had talked about doping prior to 99 - but when that was given to you, you requested different information which 'appeared' to suit a preconceived notion.

Apologies, That was a bit of a frustrated rant. If you look at the posts from some of the other guys you might understand why.
I still maintain however, that my request for evidence that LeMond had anything more than a passing interest in doping (previous to Armstrong) was not provided.

Cheers
Andy

 

[pmcg76]

Ok i will ignore the entirely subjective "level playing field" issue for the moment....as i don't want to repeat myself....if you want to know why...then please go back and read what i have already said

Ok so what about it's level now? Completely clean? Anyone who believes that...well good luck Dorothy....as you say au revoir to Kansas.

Actually i think the much derided passport is helping level the playing field....by setting parameters that essentially mean that (apart from the HGH) anything someone takes or does can only be used to have such marginal gains, as to become almost pointless. The HGH test isn't far off by the way....but there will be always be room for manoeuvre there too. And there are already and will always be newer ways and drugs to circumnavigae the rules.

Aussie....i am interested you are a big Evans fan...did you read his comments in Pro cycling about LA a few years back....that must have been dissapointing. And I know this will upset you, but the day Cadel starts winning grand tours is the day i reach for the remote

Hi Coca Cola....congrats on your impending confirmation pm that you have been accepted for junior membership of the hate cult....a few more posts, preferably with some more arbitary received "wisdoms", and they will promote you to senior. Have such fun!

So, I went back and read your original post and the jist of it is that you dont really care how people achieve their success or who they bully or who they take for a ride or how much money they make by doing so, you still admire them. Anybody who questions this like Kimmage are whiners who were not prepared to do what it took. Your post sounds like the ultimate losers suck rant, so suck it up losers.

I think you should recognise Lance was never just another cyclist winning some race in some small time sport in Europe. If he was, he wouldnt get the grief he does. Just compare Armstrong and Indurain, light years apart in their public recognition but pretty equal in sporting terms.

When Lance decided to return from his deathbed to cycling, he knew exactly what he was doing and what he represented if successful. Its one think for a regular cyclist to dope against other doped riders to win in a sport in which most regular fans knew what was happening after Festina. Fine try and take cycling fans for a ride but to dupe the cancer community and the unknown general public and make yourself super-rich of then is on another planet.

No rider in history has ever put out the amount of spin as Lance has in an effort to ensure those same people stayed brainwashed, lets face it most people in cycling knew what was going on years ago but because of his success in brainwashing the wider public and the money spinning effect this had for various companies/organisations/people, he was given ample space and freedom to do as he wished. Cycling became so much about him in an effort to generate money through the wider public that it turned most normal cyclings fans off. He was just one athlete been given way to much coverage in relation to what he actually done.

You make a point about the work he done for cancer but by those standards, its equally logical to admire the mafia, Colombian druglords, dodgy CEOs etc because at the end of the day they are also looking after their own interests and those of their families, communitites etc. How many corrupt businessmen also host charity events and back charities etc. Yes, doping to win at sports is not on the same level but morality wise, it is hardly the message to be giving to kids but you seem ok with that.

If you are going to include people like Simeoni in your rant get it right, the Simeoni case had zero to do with Lance until he waded in accusing Simeoni of being a liar. He had nothing to say about Simeoni for years until his link with Ferrari became public. That was hardly Simeoni's fault. It just highlighted what a control freak and bully Armstrong is.

To me Armstrong is a child of a modern society in which capitalism is taken to the extreme, a celebrity infatuated world in which people will screw over whoever it takes to be rich and successful at any cost and then cannot stand not being in the limelight and will go to any lengths to ensure they stay in the public eye.

As you clealy illustrated, these are characteristics you really admire. In review, that says more about yourself than about of the so called haters on here.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Apologies, That was a bit of a frustrated rant. If you look at the posts from some of the other guys you might understand why.
I still maintain however, that my request for evidence that LeMond had anything more than a passing interest in doping (previous to Armstrong) was not provided.

Cheers
Andy

No problem - and yes, I can understand the frustration.

On LeMond- his views certainly weren't a 'passing interest', he has always been outspoken and clearly states that they are harming the sport, which is consistent with his current position.
When you contrast anything he has said against most other ex pro's his views are a lot stronger that "a passing interest".
(We can take that up on the appropriate thread,if you wish to comment further)

 

[L'arriviste]

No problem - and yes, I can understand the frustration.

Sorry but I can't, Doc. That's the whole problem with these threads, whatever each of us think about the issues. Not singling out anyone here but none of us should need to be having frustrated rants and upsetting each other.

If we cut out all the flaming, insults and the backlash from misunderstandings, these threads would be half the length and a lot more interesting.